Bruce Nesmith Interview: 1 month, 1 32 page module

According to James Jacobs, a 32-page module should be approx 20k words, and 2k of workable writing per day is considered an average day's work. So, 10 days to write, then 20 days for the editing and other work to turn it from raw text into a product? That doesn't actually sound so bad.

However, being expected to write an adventure from just a title and with no further guidance is considerably more problematic.

(And, of course, being asked to do it over and over, every single month, may well also have become an issue quite quickly. I'm just not sure the required word/page output is unreasonable.)

 

[TerraDave]

[Promoted Thread] As a supporter of "Dungeons and Dragons" a documentary, I was sent a link to an interview with Bruce Nesmith, who worked at TSR back in the day and is now at Bethesda Software. The interview is password protected, but I thought it was worth sharing this bit: "Under Jim Ward's supervision, the rule was that in 1 month, you would write 1 32 pg module. If it was 64 pgs, then you got two months. A box set, 5 months. This rule was followed assiduously, and in 12 months you would do 12 module equivalents."

I think explains the quality of much of the output in the 2E era. And it gets better. He gave an example where someone else wrote the description and title of the adventure, the cover art was done, then he had to write it. Out of whole cloth. He was told to do "War Rafts of Kron" and he did it, in a month, not really knowing what a War Raft was or Kron was.

 

[TerraDave]

2K seems high. 4 pages, single spaced? I guess if you are a typist, no problem, but if any thought has to go in it, it seems high.

But yes, the bigger point is churning one out after another.

EDIT: I looked at his post...interesting. But its seems like you would already need to bring a lot to the table in terms of ideas, structure, encounter elements, etc, to hit that rate.

Or, maybe things haven't changed much.

 

[Ranes]

Two thousand words a day is very high output for a module writer or it would be if it had to be sustained constantly. Two thousand words a day for ten days every month isn't easy but at least it lets the writer get his breath back.

I was a journalist. Two thousand words a day was considered about as much as anyone could turn out and have it be decent (of course, it would still be attended by a sub-editor but it had to be of a high enough standard not to bog down that individual). In reality, two thousand words would be peak output. One thousand a day would be more typical.

And I've worked in the games industry, developing tabletop RPG adventures and computer games. Considering the amount of work that has to go into a traditional RPG adventure design beyond the writing (new monster, trap and other rule mechanics, map layouts and so forth), two thousand words a day would be fairly punishing, if you had to do it day in, day out.

These figures aren't new to me. I've encountered companies that expect such a work rate constantly and I've heard of many others from colleagues and from articles in the industry press. The figures annoy me, because I think they're driven by misguided people. Sadly, however, the figures do not shock me.

People can do two thousand good words a day, if they're feeling fresh and inspired. As James Jacobs says, five thousand is phenomenal but not impossible. But expecting a writer — and adventure designer — to sustain that rate means, in my view, accepting a lower overall standard or burning out your writer.

I do like the story about being handed cover art and a title as a brief though. A creative should love that challenge.

 

[Remathilis]

This explains soooo much...

 

[Morlock]

40 * 4 = 160 hours. Seems to me like enough time to write a 32pp adventure. At least, it doesn't immediately strike me as "wrong!" Especially if you don't count back-burner brainstorming.

Deadlines improve efficiency. Without them, people tend to fart around. 'Course, play-testing is still needed.

 

[pming]

Hiya.

This is what WotC needs to do NOW! We don't *need* 128-page modules. They don't *need* to be hardback. They don't *need* to be glossy paged and full color. They don't *need* to have virtually unreadable full-color, full-textureized, lighting-effects maps. *ALL* of that crap they keep pumping out, claiming it's "for quality" is something that they and their marketing team likely keep telling them.

When dealing with RPG's and adventure-modules (especially for D&D!), all that is *completely unnecessary*. I mean, looking at the prices of used 1e modules.... yeah, the ones written in a month, with no color art other than a small cover inset, black and white maps, single-tone, 'line/symbol' based maps, stapled together, and detachable cardstock cover... in Fair or better condition a lot of them run from about $12 to $30, with the 'rare' ones in good condition going for 10 times that or more! Why? Simple; they have *quality in reusability and adaptability" for a DM. Compair that to the Rise of Tiamate and Hoard of the Dragon queen. Both pulling out all the stops for "quality" (hardback, fancy stitching, full color, etc). How much are they now? Somewhere in the middle of the average price for an old 1e module (roughly $22).

So..., uh, hmmm. I guess there's not much else to say. Thank the gods I recently found about 60% of my old modules in a box in the basement of my parents house! I thought I had lost them over a decade and a half ago!

Moral of the story: "What 'marketers' see as quality is not necessarily what RPG'ers see as quality". It will be a fine day indeed when the folks at the D&D RPG branch finally get that through their thick noodle.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Hussar]

[MENTION=6776981]Morlock[/MENTION] - Imagine you had to write a 32 page essay, complete, front to back, in a month. That's insanely fast. Can it be done? Sure. But, the quality you get is going to suffer a whole pile.
[MENTION=45197]pming[/MENTION] - note, you're talking about 1e modules and the article about 2e. I'm not sure if that 1 month time limit applied to classic modules. Then again, lots of those classic modules were pretty forgettable too, so, it's not like everything back then was wrapped in gold. Just maybe wrapped in rosy hues.

 

[Sanglorian]

@Morlock - Imagine you had to write a 32 page essay, complete, front to back, in a month. That's insanely fast. Can it be done? Sure. But, the quality you get is going to suffer a whole pile.

Does anyone know what the average word count for a 32-page module was back then? Given art and maps and stat blocks and so on, it could be quite low. On the other hand, I know the text they used was quite small.

 

[Jester David]

Hiya.

This is what WotC needs to do NOW! We don't *need* 128-page modules. They don't *need* to be hardback. They don't *need* to be glossy paged and full color. They don't *need* to have virtually unreadable full-color, full-textureized, lighting-effects maps. *ALL* of that crap they keep pumping out, claiming it's "for quality" is something that they and their marketing team likely keep telling them.

When dealing with RPG's and adventure-modules (especially for D&D!), all that is *completely unnecessary*. I mean, looking at the prices of used 1e modules.... yeah, the ones written in a month, with no color art other than a small cover inset, black and white maps, single-tone, 'line/symbol' based maps, stapled together, and detachable cardstock cover... in Fair or better condition a lot of them run from about $12 to $30, with the 'rare' ones in good condition going for 10 times that or more! Why? Simple; they have *quality in reusability and adaptability" for a DM. Compair that to the Rise of Tiamate and Hoard of the Dragon queen. Both pulling out all the stops for "quality" (hardback, fancy stitching, full color, etc). How much are they now? Somewhere in the middle of the average price for an old 1e module (roughly $22).

So..., uh, hmmm. I guess there's not much else to say. Thank the gods I recently found about 60% of my old modules in a box in the basement of my parents house! I thought I had lost them over a decade and a half ago!

Moral of the story: "What 'marketers' see as quality is not necessarily what RPG'ers see as quality". It will be a fine day indeed when the folks at the D&D RPG branch finally get that through their thick noodle.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

Yeah!
Why pay $40 for 256-pages of hardcover adventure when we can pay twice that for eight 32-page softcover adventures that will look battered after a single use?