Bucklers and spellcasting

[Drugged Dwarf]

oh. Heh. Yeah. I knew that... right...

Oh, and would clerics still lose their buckler shield bonus when casting if they have the Improved Buckler Defense feat from Comp. Warrior ((sorry guys, all these abbreviations - CW, BBEG, BoVD, YMCA, they make no sense to me.))

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I don't have that book available, so I'm not sure how it would interact with the buckler.

 

[Keith]

Well, it seems to me that with regards to wearing a buckler the SRD allows that “ You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so”. I don’t take this to imply that that same arm is equally free for the purposes of spells with somatic components- there is nothing anywhere that says that. Using a weapon and a shield together seems logical enough, but casting a spell with the same arm that is using a tiny shield for defense seems highly unlikely. If it is allowed, why is it allowed without penalty, would be my question- I think that is in turn very unlikely from a rules perspective. Still, there is nothing explicit either way, so I can see the difference in decisions on the idea.

Cheers

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Well, it seems to me that with regards to wearing a buckler the SRD allows that “ You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so”. I don’t take this to imply that that same arm is equally free for the purposes of spells with somatic components- there is nothing anywhere that says that.

That's FranktheDM's point of view, which I alluded to in my first post. The reason, of course, is that the hand is not being used at all when a [D&D] buckler is employed. It is, instead, strapped to a character's arm.

This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm

Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.

So, what's in your hand that prevents it from being free? Nothing.

If it is allowed, why is it allowed without penalty, would be my question- I think that is in turn very unlikely from a rules perspective.

1. It is not strictly without penalty; bucklers have a 5% chance of Arcane Spell Failure.
2. For those who do not suffer from ASF, casting is likewise allowed without penalty in full plate armor - including the heavy metal gauntlets and vambraces it entails.

 

[Keith]

It isn't the weight of the buckler that makes me suspicious (like say a gauntlet, which I agree is a similar case of something being allowed despite probably very dubious "realism"), but the idea of using a hand to cast a spell while using the attached forearm to block blows directed who-knows-where on the character's person.
However, I think the above argument is pretty solid, and other than still having some misgivings about the idea, I am won over.