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D&D 5E Building a better Cleric

Paul Smart

Explorer
Hi everyone.

Lets talk Clerics. What works about them? What would you change and why? How can they be improved?

I would love to hear everyones thoughts.
 

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I think that the basic Cleric class chassis is pretty good.
I suspect that there is a lot more room for discussion around design of the Domains.
 

Raith5

Adventurer
I like 5e clerics. The domains have a really big impact on play. I have played a life cleric and tempest cleric and they play differently with the tempest being more damaging in combat. Then again even the life cleric I played was handy in battle at lower levels.

The only beef I have the tradeoff between healing party members and using my spells more creatively. But of course this was an issue across the editions - with the exception of 4e. I am not sure how this issue could be addressed within the 5e framework.
 

Healing, summoning spiritual weaponry/guardians (up to and including Planar Ally / Gate spells), buffs like Guiding Bolt / Bless / Guidance. So much Guidance. I'm also a huge fan of things like Augury, but that's GM dependant. If we talk about the cleric without the domains peeking in, those are going to be your staples.

* Arcane... is tricky. I mean, being able to banish with a Turn Unead channel is pretty awesome, but very game dependant. As is Spell Breaker. If you're constantly being cursed in combat, it can be handy to have, but very game dependant. Good as a counter-magic specialist, I suppose. Arguably better than Abujurer at being an anti-magic specialist but Improved Abjuration gives it a run for its money. Without magic to contend with, however, it falls back on those spells mentioned above, or a discount blaster. I honestly suggest Knowledge over Arcane - much more versatile.

* Death is fun. Necromantic energy specialist, either by hitting with a blade or going spells. Dex-focused, so it ends up being kind of assassin-y, which is fun to play up. At least I had fun. In theory, you can do the whole undead army thing, but I think that you should save that for Oathbreaker and Necromancer, and stick with being "necrotic energy master." You can easily bounce between spells and melee with this, making it a rather fun necro-gish type.

* Knowledge. A solid diviner class. Can be really good, depending on the game. Between the class features and Guidance, you're probably the best at skill checks in the game for along time, and Read Thoughts is nothing to sneer at in the social department. Not great at combat, but pretty awesome at everything else. Arcane eye and scrying for exploration abities.

* Life. King of healers, and a forte of clerics as a whole. Can't go wrong with this.

* Light. Bleh. Discount Evoker. While it may be good at radiant spells, the cleric really doesn't have enough spells to really be a good blaster. You end up defaulting to spamming fireball and Sacred Flame. You're not very good at the thing you're supposed to be good at. I suppose that's the price of trying to be a blaster in a class not meant to blast, but its just trying too hard to be a sorcerer or wizard.

* Much like above, Nature's spell list wants you to play a discount druid. You're not even getting Entangle, though, which makes me sad. Charming animals with your Channel Divinity is nice, but just saves a spell slot that druids would use for a spell for anyways. That said? This particular class is built to use Shillelagh with elemental strikes, and dampen elements, making this a great class if you expect to deal with elemental problems at some point. Not much use otherwise, though, especially since most games take their time getting to level 8, and don't last for much longer after.

* Tempest. Basically a lot like Death, but with lightning instead of necrotic energy. It has some great utility and damage mix, and which ends up in some good battlefield control as well as potentially very good nova damage. Its just plain -fun- to mess around with.

* Trickery is trying to be a Rogue, much as we have light-sorcerer and nature-druid types. Get a tentacle rod, do some sneay things, poison people. Can be good if you have a stealth-focused group and want a cleric in the mix.

* War domain. Remember those spirit weapon spells I talked about above? Just like the Life specializes in healing, War specializes in those spells to do lots of damage while wading into combat personally. Life buffs / heals, War melee's it out.


Life, War and Knowedge basically cover the three big points of what I consider cleric's specialties as a whole. Healing/buffing, buffed combat, and divine divinations. Those are pretty much the cliche cleric. Everything else, in my opinion, is the cleric trying to be something else. Someimtes that something else is fun to play, but not always that great at it.
 

DaviMMS

First Post
I like the current cleric very much. There are very few things that I would change. The changes I would make are.

1st: Add high level domain spells. Domain Spells add a lot of Flavor to the subclasses, and cleric high level spells are kind of lame. I would only put 1 per level instead of 2, or even add only to the spell list instead of prepared spells.

2nd: Change around the 8th level domain ability with the 6th level one. Every single class get a boost to their at will attacks at 5th or 6th, including cantrip clerics, but for some reason weapon clerics have to wait till 8th for this boost. I would also lower the 2nd d8 from Divine Strike to 11th or 12th for the same reason.

3rd: Would rise the number of uses of the Wis mod per day domain abilities to 2xWis mod per day. I don't think any of them are strong enough to justify such a big limitation on the number of uses.

I don't think any of those are really necessary, but they solve some minor nitpicks I have with the class.

Sent from my SM-G900M using EN World mobile app
 

shadowoflameth

Adventurer
I've been playing a Cleric in the Arcana Domain. So far at low levels, my takeaway is that Bless which the guides call gold is not that useful. With bounded accuracy, I've found that 1d4 doesn't really matter often. Characters either hit by a lot or miss by a lot. I don't know if that's been the experience of others in play but my 2 cents.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
Hi everyone.

Lets talk Clerics. What works about them? What would you change and why? How can they be improved?

I would love to hear everyones thoughts.
Not to sound like [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION] talking about Paladins, but just getting rid of them wouldn't be all bad, and would bring the game closer to the genre it nominally emulates. I mean, Dragonlance and Dark Sun both essentially did just that.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I feel like the "Cleric" was the original Paladin concept. He was a Holy Warrior. Heavy Armor and a mace but couldn't fight as well as the true fighters and the Holy Parts came from his Holy Magic.

I think if the fluff of clerics was still that they were Holy Warriors of their God they would be a lot more cool. Paladin now has kind of taken the Holy Warrior concept and relegated the Clerics to being though of more as priests. IMO
 

discosoc

First Post
My main complaint about 5e Clerics is how so many of them get heavy armor proficiency. Not exactly sure why that bothers me, but it seems to trivialize something about the class. My second complaint is more tied to Concentration limits, but clerics really don't have a lot of interesting ways to support their allies. Healing isn't very effective, buffs are usually limited to one at a time, and they really lack a good selection of non-combat utility (or the utility is trivially replaced with other stuff).

They just don't feel like a support class.
 

discosoc

First Post
I've been playing a Cleric in the Arcana Domain. So far at low levels, my takeaway is that Bless which the guides call gold is not that useful. With bounded accuracy, I've found that 1d4 doesn't really matter often. Characters either hit by a lot or miss by a lot. I don't know if that's been the experience of others in play but my 2 cents.

Bless is generally your best buff. It doesn't have to come from the Cleric, but there's not really anything better pound-for-pound. Also, 1d4 is actually better because of bounded accuracy. It's a +5-20% chance to hit, and makes things like GWM and SS even less risky. Saving throws are boosted by it, and DC's for those are usually a bit lower than on-level AC values, so there's even more benefit there.

Basically bless is awesome for the party, mechanically.
 

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