D&D 5E Building a better Monk

[Tony Vargas]

I think "one who has control of their ki" is conceptually different enough from the Fighter or Rogue to be it's own class.

I don't find the rogue and fighter quite worthy, individually, either - You could combine them and not have an overpowered class.

. Fighters are mundane warriors, Monks are taping into an inner energy that Fighters have no direct control over. Maybe Barbarians are taping into it too, but in an uncontrolled sort of way.

Second Wind and Action Surge tap into and direct an inner energy. Calling that Ki instead of second wind or CS dice is just orientalist baggage.

 

[Xeviat]

Second Wind and Action Surge tap into and direct an inner energy. Calling that Ki instead of second wind or CS dice is just orientalist baggage.

You could consider second wind and action surge to be uses of Ki, sure. It's less reckless of an application than the Barbarians, but still with less finesse than the monk. It works for me. One could probably redesign all of the warriors off a ki point progression and give a lot more variety to their abilities.

 

[Tony Vargas]

You could consider second wind and action surge to be uses of Ki, sure.

Ki is explicitly magical, even though it just means 'breath.' The difference between the monk and the fighter is not in tapping inner power, it is that the Monk's doing so is mystified as the 'Other' while the fighter is familiar- and familiarity breeds contempt.

 

[Xeviat]

Ki is explicitly magical, even though it just means 'breath.' The difference between the monk and the fighter is not in tapping inner power, it is that the Monk's doing so is mystified as the 'Other' while the fighter is familiar- and familiarity breeds contempt.

I've already blended Ki and Psionics in my setting anyway, so the "otherism" isn't really there beyond how fighters and bladesingers are different. But, i also like the notion that all PC classed characters in a world are "magical", so "everyone has ki" fits my asthetic too. For some people, their inner energy simply passively makes them stronger or tougher or gives them a wellspring of endurance they can tap into. Other people get far more mystical with it. Others eschew their inner power and draw upon magic.

I do think a more balanced game could be attained if everyone was using some kind of "spell point" mechanic behind the scenes. Some class abilities would simply "lock up" an amount of "spell points" in passive abilities (like extra attack), while others (like spells) are active spend "spell points" abilities.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I'.

I do think a more balanced game could be attained if everyone was using some kind of "spell point" mechanic behind the scenes. Some class abilities would simply "lock up" an amount of "spell points" in passive abilities (like extra attack), while others (like spells) are active spend "spell points" abilities.

Perhaps a concept something like RuneQuest's 'Power' stat could work for that? POW directly fueled battlemagic, paid for priests' time magic, and high POW passively added to just about any roll - notable exception being stealth...

 

[Xeviat]

Perhaps a concept something like RuneQuest's 'Power' stay could work for that? POW directly fueled battlemagic, paid for priests' time magic, and high POW passively added to just about any roll - notable exception being stealth...

Something like that, but I wouldn't want to let people hold onto a pool of stuff for passive effects with the knowledge that they could spend them late for big effects; I'd rather they spent them at character creation/level up. It'd probably be similar to 4E Dual Classing if you could choose between passive effects or encounter/daily powers (or like how there were some at-will utility powers vs encounter/daily utilities). But we're getting away from the Monk.

I'm actually working on a Monk rewrite, where I treat it like a half-Mystic and open up its options. It makes it less reliant upon the "Fantasy Orient" and opens it up to more concepts. But it's still very much a "mystical warrior", while the fighter is a "mundane warrior".

 

[Tony Vargas]

Something like that, but I wouldn't want to let people hold onto a pool of stuff for passive effects with the knowledge that they could spend them late for big effects; I'd rather they spent them at character creation/level up. It'd probably be similar to 4E Dual Classing if you could choose between passive effects or encounter/daily powers (or like how there were some at-will utility powers vs encounter/daily utilities).

I could see that, and, interestingly, you could do that, a bit, in RQ. The one RQ character I played the most was a small (RQ also had a size stat) human who was specialized in stealth, because he didn't carry the butchest weapons, he sometimes resorted to a minor attack spell called Disruption, when you 'hit' with spells, you get POW gain rolls, so his POW would keep getting high enough for a stealth penalty, and which point he'd sacrifice some for one-use Rune Magic (a very sub-optimal thing to do).

The choice of abdicating most flexibility going forward vs waiting for ever-growing flexibility and power later is the classic D&D non-caster/caster dichotomy.

But we're getting away from the Monk.

That'd be a good thing, yes. ;P

 

[Mephista]

Another vote for the elemental path needing fixes rather than the monk itself. I love my Aarkosha wind monk. So ki starved, but fun as hell.

 

[ad_hoc]

I find that the mobility feat is so needed with monk for this reason. Otherwise, you almost need to just use a bow for tier 1.

Mobile is a waste on a Monk. They already get a lot of the abilities that it provides.

They're also pretty tough in Tier 1. AC 16 is no joke. They can also Dodge as a bonus action.

The enemies are making attacks. Someone's getting attacked. If the Monk runs away then they're just going to attack the Wizard instead.

Monks are versatile. That is their strength. Not just doing a bit of damage and running away.

 

[Yunru]

Mobile is a waste on a Monk. They already get a lot of the abilities that it provides.

They're also pretty tough in Tier 1. AC 16 is no joke. They can also Dodge as a bonus action.

The enemies are making attacks. Someone's getting attacked. If the Monk runs away then they're just going to attack the Wizard instead.

Monks are versatile. That is their strength. Not just doing a bit of damage and running away.

Truly you do not understand the Monk.

Hit and run is the Monk.
Extra speed? It's so you can get back out having crossed the distance to engage in melee.
D8 hit dice? It's because they're supposed to avoid being hit.
Most Martial Arts features not working in armour or with a shield? You're not supposed to tank as a Monk.

Mobile might give you a lot of features you can already access, but all of them either stack, or are outright free compared to without the feat.