D&D 5E Building a better Sorcerer

[Paul Smart]

Hi, everyone.

Let's talk Sorcerers. What works for them? What would you change and why? How can they be improved?

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts. Also, let's keep it civil.

 

[Eubani]

Currently toying with Double Sorcery Points Double Metamagics known and Bloodline bonus spells.

 

[CTurbo]

Let's see...... how about a d12 hit die and heavy armor proficiency??? Pretty please?

 

[Bitbrain]

My thoughts, seeing as how I am playing an 11th level sorcerer

1. Sorcery Points recharge on a short or long rest.
2. Creating a new spell slot costs a number of sorcery points equal to 1 + the desired spell slot's level (2 for a 1st level slot, 4 for a 3rd level slot, etc.)
3. Origin spell list for each Sorcerous Origin.

Way over powered, WotC won't go for that.

I really like this list. The only thing I would add is more metamagic options to choose from, and giving sorcerers a couple more metamagics known (possibly based on origin).

EDIT
Okay . . . Taking both replies into account, about this?

1. Sorcery points equal to Constitution modifier + half your sorcerer level, regain on short or long rest.
2. Creating a new spell slot costs a number of sorcery points equal to 1 + the desired spell slot's level (2 for a 1st level slot, 4 for a 3rd level slot, etc.)
3. Origin spell list for each Sorcerous Origin.
4. 3 Metamagic options known at 3rd level, 2 additional options at 10th and 17th, to a maximum of 7 at 17th level.

 

[Croesus]

My thoughts, seeing as how I am playing an 11th level sorcerer

1. Sorcery Points recharge on a short or long rest.
2. Creating a new spell slot costs a number of sorcery points equal to 1 + the desired spell slot's level (2 for a 1st level slot, 4 for a 3rd level slot, etc.)
3. Origin spell list for each Sorcerous Origin.

I really like this list. The only thing I would add is more metamagic options to choose from, and giving sorcerers a couple more metamagics known (possibly based on origin).

 

[gyor]

My thoughts, seeing as how I am playing an 11th level sorcerer

1. Sorcery Points recharge on a short or long rest.
2. Creating a new spell slot costs a number of sorcery points equal to 1 + the desired spell slot's level (2 for a 1st level slot, 4 for a 3rd level slot, etc.)
3. Origin spell list for each Sorcerous Origin.

Way over powered, WotC won't go for that.

 

[Croesus]

Way over powered, WotC won't go for that.

re: WOTC. Not sure that matters. These threads are useful for ideas, whether or not those ideas make it into the next version of the rules.

re: Overpowered. You may be right. Sorcerer strikes me as an interesting outlier among the classes: it seems to shine most at high levels. Most classes are front loaded with stuff that is useful immediately. Sorcerers, on the other hand, need a lot of sorcery points to be very flexible, but they gain SP slowly. Trading high level slots for low level is nuts given the relative cost/benefit, but trading lower level for a higher level makes sense once we get to those levels where a caster only gets 1 or 2 slots a day (6th level and above).

I've only played a sorcerer to 6th level so far and - even with some house rule buffs - it's a bit frustrating in play compared to a wizard. However, I have a feeling that around 12th level or so, he'd be a lot of fun with multiple metamagic options, double digit sorcery points, and high level spells. I'm not sure if this is accurate, nor, if it is, if that was the intent. Just my two cents...

 

[cbwjm]

On origin spells, what would you have for dragon sorcerers? Spells which make sense for a gold dragon sorcerer may make little sense for a white dragon sorcerer. This could mean having spells which capture the power of a dragon in general (flight, fear type spells), the creation of spells for the dragon sorcerer which change based on the sorcerer's dragon type (Dragon Breath, 4th level evocation, 8d8 damage in a line or cone depending on dragon type), or separate spell lists for each dragon type. I'd probably look at the spell-like abilities that dragon's had in 2e for ideas.

 

[tglassy]

Not sure this belongs here, but I did just create a level 4 human sorcerer who has Tavern Brawler, and the new Brawny Feat to give double prof in Athletics, +1str and to be able to lift like he was a size larger. I rolled ungodly stats while the DM watched. 17, 17, 16, 16, 11, 10. So str, dex, Con and chat are all decent.

I used him for the first time yesterday, started at level 4. The DM put us up against a young, red Shadow Dragon. After it knocked us around a bit, I managed to cast Enhance Ability, giving me adv on Str checks, and grappled the dragon (It's a large creature, only one size larger). I managed to keep it grappled as my party range attacked it to death. It had already used its breath attack, and kept trying to break the grapple instead of attacking me (I only had 10 hp left!). But because of my advantage and double proficiency, it couldn't break free. Three rounds like that, and it was dead.

My silver dragon blooded human sorcerer grappled a young adult dragon and wrestled it to the ground, forced it into the light to debuff it, and kept it there. I didn't do any damage, but it was still totally awesome, and according to the DM was considered a flawless dragon hunt (this was an initiation to a dragon hunting guild.).

In hindsight, Enlarge would be better than Enhance ability, because then I could Grapple Huge creatures. With Advantage. And double proficiency in Athletics. Oh, and I took Subtle Spell so he could cast while grappling.

As for the original topic, I do feel there are too few sorcerer points. Having some way to give it a bonus would be nice. And I don't know why Sorcerers have such a small spell list. And so few spells known. It just feels like they got gipped. Sure, they have a little flexibility with flexible casting, but it just feels like everything is limited.


Sent from my iPad using EN World

 

[Xeviat]

Here are my thoughts:

1) Spell Points: Switch Sorcerers fully to spell points. The Sorcerer was born of having a different spellcasting system from the casters of old. Now, "known spells" spellcasters simply feel weaker than "prepared spells" spellcasters. Switching them to Spell Points would make them feel different again.
2) Sorcery Points: These are currently balanced against the Wizard's Arcane Recovery. Increasing them to short rest recharge would give the sorcerer a bit too much. BUT, maybe cut the pool to 1/3rd and then make it short rest recovery. Then, allow them to cast from those sorcery points as if they were spell points, so the sorcerer could always have magic around given a little rest.
3) Metamagic: Remove this from the Sorcerer class. Put it back into feats. Metamagic began as something everyone could do. Metamagic would be done by using a higher level spell slot without gaining the higher level effects. I really like this because it feels like casters have less options for feats.
4) Overchanneling: Take something from the Wilder of the "Expanded Psionics Handbook". Allow the sorcerer to use their sorcery points to cast spells at a higher level than normal. If the sorcerer doesn't get to have more spells per day than a wizard (though they really could with spell points if they conserved their power), let them have bigger spells when they want to. This could fill some of the metamagic spots, since some things wouldn't work mathematically compared to upcasting (a metamagic spell that increases damage against a spell's targets is the same as just upcasting the spell, so that shouldn't exist).
5) Give Sorcerers something else unique: This comes back to why I don't like metamagic as the Sorcerer's thing. Metamagic uses Sorcery Points. Sorcery Points are akin to the Arcane Recovery ability of the Wizard. That's 1 level's ability. Each metamagic option doesn't increase a sorcerer's power, it broadens it. Their progression needs things of its own. What ... I'm not sure. Their bloodline abilities cover the differentiation between sorcerer's themselves.
6) Bloodline Spells: Bloodlines should have bonus spells known lists. This ensures they will be thematic without requiring them to spend their limited spells known on those thematics.

What does the Wizard get? They get Arcane Recovery, Spell Mastery, Signature Spell, and 4 Arcane Tradition abilities.
What does the Sorcerer get? They get Font of Magic and Sorcery Points (comparable to Arcane Recovery), 6 metamagic options (only 1 takes up a class ability slot, though), 4 Sorcerer Origin features, and Sorcerous Restoration (comparable to signature spell).

Hu. Looking at it again, I was a little harsh on metamagic's retail space in the sorcerer's progression. It doesn't really hog that much space. I suppose Font of Magic really helps the sorcerer get mileage out of their 1st level slots, which they might not really be using much of anymore.

I change my answer. All I really want is spell points and origin spells.