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Building a better Sorcerer
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7203634" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Magic-affecting-magic is certainly what meta-magic feats were when they were introduced in 3e, though I suppose spells like the classic Dispel Magic, Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer, or 2e's Squaring the Circle or Sense Shifting, were also very much meta-magic in that sense. </p><p></p><p>What meta-magic actually does in 5e is tweak a spell in some way. That's something it's very reasonable to do in the moment, if you're an instinctive magic-user. At best, if you're a traditional 'Vancian' wizard, it's something you might do when you prepare a spell (which is how it worked in 3e) - at worst, if you're like Vance's actual magicians in the Dying Earth, all you can do is memorize the formulae you find, modding with meta-magic is conceptually off the table.</p><p></p><p>5e made meta-magic the Sorcerer's thing, and it's really not enough of a thing, by itself. IMHO, it needs to be more deeply integrated with the way Sorcerers cast. Maybe they shouldn't even have spells known, for instance, but just describe the effect they want, and then the DM can work out from existing spells and meta-magic whether it can be done and what level slot it would require? Some sort of check might make a lot of sense, too.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7203634, member: 996"] Magic-affecting-magic is certainly what meta-magic feats were when they were introduced in 3e, though I suppose spells like the classic Dispel Magic, Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer, or 2e's Squaring the Circle or Sense Shifting, were also very much meta-magic in that sense. What meta-magic actually does in 5e is tweak a spell in some way. That's something it's very reasonable to do in the moment, if you're an instinctive magic-user. At best, if you're a traditional 'Vancian' wizard, it's something you might do when you prepare a spell (which is how it worked in 3e) - at worst, if you're like Vance's actual magicians in the Dying Earth, all you can do is memorize the formulae you find, modding with meta-magic is conceptually off the table. 5e made meta-magic the Sorcerer's thing, and it's really not enough of a thing, by itself. IMHO, it needs to be more deeply integrated with the way Sorcerers cast. Maybe they shouldn't even have spells known, for instance, but just describe the effect they want, and then the DM can work out from existing spells and meta-magic whether it can be done and what level slot it would require? Some sort of check might make a lot of sense, too. [/QUOTE]
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