D&D 4E Building a team for a 4e pvp game

[Jessica]

Right now I'm playing in an online 4e pvp game and I have a lot of gaps when it comes to knowledge about certain roles. Especially when it comes to leaders. Currently my pvp team consists of a level 2 Vampire and I have the points to add a level 1 character of my choice and I'm thinking I might go for a leader that synergizes with a Vampire. The Vampire is non-negotiable before anyone chimes in with "don't play a Vampire lolz". My long term plan is to make a team that tends to be hard to kill and can really muck up the other team's ability to nova. Here is basically what I'm looking for in a leader:

*Something survivable since there is a chance they might get a lot of hate from the enemy team
*Something that can grant damage resistance(since temp HP granting sort of steps on the toes of the Vampire atm although it might come useful later)
*Something that can debuff or grant consistent defensive bonuses so I can make sure my team can last
*Ideally something can grant MBAs to my Vampire but I'm will to let this go for more team survivability

There are some house rules in the game in that APs can only be used to grant a minor or move action(so no pop AP and then double daily or some non-sense like that) or a special minor bonus based on role. Also Tainted Wounds is banned so there isn't a worry of just flat out shutting down healing.

 

[Aenghus]

I don't have a lot of experience with 4e pvp teams but 4e is the D&D I use.

IMO 4e PvP teams tend to be very striker heavy as strikers specialise in targetable high damage. Leader roles do less damage personally and are weaker the less characters they support.

It does depend on the prevailing meta in your particular PvP community, of course, and the details of houserules and rulings. PvP is all about focus fire unless their are rules or conventions dictating personal duels. Ranged attacks make focus fire easier.

Also the conditions of the fight matter, small arena makes melee more viable, the larger the arena and the further apart the teams start the more ranged combat is favoured. A lack of cover can suit ranged combat.

For a two person team I would generally go with a second striker class, maybe with a leader multiclass. If hybrids are allowed some hybrid builds can be very effective, but need a few levels to work.

If there's reliable cover, stealth can be effective against teams with low perception, though for full effectiveness everyone would need stealth, otherwise the visible allies get targeted by all the enemies.

 

[Jessica]

I don't know if there are other arena types but the one I saw people fighting on was 17x17 and I'm not sure on starting positions(edge maybe?). I didn't see any cover. You can technically have as many people as you want on your team but the cost of purchasing each team member increases and same with increasing levels. Also when it comes to gauging an even fight it's based on total levels across your entire team with people dropping characters for a fight if they want to face against someone with a lower total number of levels. We have no standard action gains from APs so novas get hit really hard. From my experience fighting someone is best out of 5 matches with daily powers being restored every 2 matches.

Eventually I'm going to increase my party up to about 6 or so members so it's not just what is best for a 2 person team but what is good for a 2 person team that is also good for a 6 person team.

 

[Blue]

4e had monsters with a lot more HPs then PCs, and a lot lower attacks. PCs had much heavier attacks and much lower HPS.

What this means is that the whole balance is off in PC vs. PC. Durability that is good against monsters is nigh-useless against PCs. On the other hand, good damage against monsters is great damage against PCs.

So basically, everyone is a glass cannon.

Strikers are great in PvP in 4e. A leader that buffs your strikers (more attacks, attacks with bonuses, etc.) like a Int warlord is likely more useful then someone heal focused.

Also, before you say "before you say don't play a vampire", try teaming any two equal level striker PCs you have around against it and see if your vampire can survive 4 rounds. If it can't it's not going to be able to fulfill your wish to be hard to kill and you may want to rethink it.

 

[Jessica]

4e had monsters with a lot more HPs then PCs, and a lot lower attacks. PCs had much heavier attacks and much lower HPS.

What this means is that the whole balance is off in PC vs. PC. Durability that is good against monsters is nigh-useless against PCs. On the other hand, good damage against monsters is great damage against PCs.

So basically, everyone is a glass cannon.

Strikers are great in PvP in 4e. A leader that buffs your strikers (more attacks, attacks with bonuses, etc.) like a Int warlord is likely more useful then someone heal focused.

Also, before you say "before you say don't play a vampire", try teaming any two equal level striker PCs you have around against it and see if your vampire can survive 4 rounds. If it can't it's not going to be able to fulfill your wish to be hard to kill and you may want to rethink it.

I don't care. I'm playing my Vampire. It is non-negotiable.

 

[Jhaelen]

Well, the 'unkillable' character in our group is a Goliath Warden. He's also able to grant damage resistance (mostly to himself, though).

The best nova damage dealer in our group is a Dragonborn Dragon Magic Sorcerer. Interestingly, he's also hard to kill because he's got plenty of reactive powers to boost his defenses and/or deal damage to attackers. The only situation where he tends to get down is when plenty of ranged attackers focus fire on him.

I'm not sure about the usefulness of leaders in a PvP situation. At least the healing kind tends to be rather useless, because they're often too busy healing themselves. One of our non-regular players has a Resourceful Warlord which is pretty good though, since he can buff the group's damage output to go through the roof (for a short time).

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

(snip) .... I'm thinking I might go for a leader that synergizes with a Vampire. (snip)

Human resourceful warlord. (I like resourceful for the AP benefit.) Dump Str. Int and then Cha are your priorities. Take powers that grant attacks (especially Direct the Strike). Take Ninth Legion Warrior feat and wield a spear (not that you will make attacks) so your OAs are replaced with Direct the Strike. Take the Battlefield Leader class feature for the heavy shield and the scale armour feat that builds off Battlefield Leader. You will have AC 19 at level 1.

I don't care. I'm playing my Vampire. It is non-negotiable.

Good on you. I like vampires too.

Artificers can work well with vampires because they create thir 2/encounter healing infusions using healing surges during a short rest. Surplus vampire surges can feed the infusions effectly creating surge-free healing for the party. But a lazylord will be better in terms of allowing you to punch above your weight.

 

[Jessica]

Good on you. I like vampires too.

Artificers can work well with vampires because they create thir 2/encounter healing infusions using healing surges during a short rest. Surplus vampire surges can feed the infusions effectly creating surge-free healing for the party. But a lazylord will be better in terms of allowing you to punch above your weight.

I think I'm going to go with an Artificer for now because I realized one of my strengths in our format. Despite daily powers recharging every two fights, everyone's healing surges reset at midnight IRL in order to put a soft cap on number of matches per day. I can fly solo for-practically-ever as long as I can hit with one melee at-will attack each fight. I think I can catch up a lot more easily with an Artificer(or at least it will take less fights before my Artificer has to bow out and I go back to flying solo). Eventually though I think I want to go with both a Warlord and an Artificer once I have the base set for a larger team. I think I might go for something like this when I hit 6 members:

???? defender
Vampire
Archer Ranger
Artificer
Warlord
Telepath Psion

 

[Blue]

I don't care. I'm playing my Vampire. It is non-negotiable.

I'm sorry that's all you got out of that post. I was trying to be helpful.

 

[Jessica]

I'm sorry that's all you got out of that post. I was trying to be helpful.

Sorry if I came off as a jerk. I have to spend time listening to people be like "Vampire sucks! Don't play it!" in multiple groups I'm in and it makes me prickly. This isn't my first rodeo. I have been playing 4e off and on since it came out and I played 4e 1v1 PvP hard core for a year and a half shortly after the edition came out. The PvP I was in before had similar rules about APs and it wasn't hard to get survivable if you built right. In all three of the games I'm in atm, my main is a Vampire of some kind(Tiefling Psion/Vampire, Vryloka Vampire|Paladin, and Human Vampire).