Building/Maintaining/Upgrading a Base of Operations.

[Kristivas]

My real life game sessions are on hold for a bit as one of the players move. I'd decided to start an online D&D thing, in this AOL RP group I've been around for like 10+ years. This is currently in the design stages.

This will start at level 1, though may involve multiple adventuring parties (as I'm not very keen on the idea of DMing a 12-15 person party) - all working together to restore this base, which they will have a minor claim to for their aid.

The premise is a Dwarven Stronghold, in which the Dwarves had all been killed or run out over a hundred years ago. By the time the PCs end up there, the previous invaders had mysteriously vanished without a trace [there are hidden clues, but that's neither here nor there]. The goal is to basically:

Adventure in the area. (got that covered)
Investigate the stronghold's past and figure out it's mysteries. (got that covered)
Some political intrigue. (got that covered)
Keep the stronghold from enemy hands. (got that covered)
Repairing/Rebuilding/Improving the stronghold and it's village. (uhm..?)

The keep's taken some damage from past battles, but overall, it's of Dwarven make and built into a mountain, so it's pretty solid once you start putting doors and gates and soldiers back in it.

If it helps, this campaign will be set in Forgotten Realms, Southeastern end of Nether Mts area in the North.

What I need help with is:
1. How do I determine the best way for the PCs to work toward the keep's repairs/upgrades/etc.? I want an entire section of the forums devoted to the town status. What they have, what they need, what goals they need to meet to get there. I want some of the goals to be cash, others to be through quests and role play.
2. How do I figure out the aspect of building and maintaining the mushroom/fungus-farming underground village, the above-ground crop-farming/fishing village, or.. if the PCs are particularly driven, both?

I need to know things like cost, ways to advance this part of the storyline without making it too complex. I don't want them to have to sit and manage every copper piece, but I'd like for them to have a say in the way things are advanced.
"Do we get the mithril smelter online, or the distillery first!?"

Some tools the PCs will begin with:
-The last two living relatives of the Dwarven Clan that once occupied the place. One of them, by birth, is the Thane. This is how the group has a legal claim to the stronghold. The Thane is an NPC, not a player.
(Former Dwarven allies once tried to help his Father reclaim the keep, but they were turned back harshly by the occupants and suffered losses. For now, they're uninterested in offering anymore aid. The Clan has lost all but two of it's members, it's fortune, it's political power and clout. Basically, the Thane is noble in name only - thus allowing PCs of any race to aid. He'll take help where he can get it.)

-A mid-level cleric NPC to provide spellcasting for book prices. Restoration, Raise Dead, etc.

-A small group of experts-class craftsmen who will like-wise work for pay (whatever's in the book).

-10-20 low-level guardsmen, and their families.

-Around 20-40 refugees/pig farmers/etc, looking to settle.

-Plenty of ore in the mountain, just waiting to be dug out.

-High Forest nearby.

-The Delimbiyr River, not far from the entrance.


All suggestions welcome. If there's a book for this, just point me in the right direction. It's the first time I've really gotten into city/base management as the goal for the game.

 

[gamerprinter]

While there might very well be a specific product covering this topic, I'm not familiar with one. However, my easiest solution for this situation is to invite NPCs and their families to move into the village and work to repair and maintain it themselves. Perhaps offer initial materials stone, timber at your cost, offer loans or tax incentives. Hire stonemasons, carpenters, timberwrights, enough to do the job and within your location's budget. Having the PCs do the maintenance and repair tends to make for a boring game, so why I recommend the party invites locals to join the village community to do the actual maintenance. You can offer payments in lots of land surrounding the community in lieu of money, so the new inhabitants will improve the land themselves, at their cost. If members of the adventure party serve civic positions like a cleric as the local religious leader, the church can collect tithes from the worshippers for additional maintenance income and further ingratiate the party to the community.

 

[BlackSeed_Vash]

Two books you might want try and track down are 3.0's "Stronghold Builder's Guidebook" and Pathfinder's "Ultimate Campaign". The Stronghold's building formula is a huge mess and everything is feel fairly expensive though the Landlord feat presented on page 10-11, really helps with the costs. On the flip side, the shear amount of customization the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook allow is nearly overwhelming. The Ultimate Campaign on the other hand, is significantly less varied, however, the rules for construction are simplistic and cheaper (and it provides the listed benefit for each piece). In addition, Pathfinder presents two ways to pay for a building pieces, either with gold or the [goods, influence, labor, magic] system introduced in the same book. You can check out a chunk of relevant parts of Ultimate Campaign here.

I've use both books in various campaigns as both a DM and a player. From my experience, I would use the Ultimate Campaign's building method as the baseline, while utilizing the Stronghold Builder's for ideas, the various magic items listed as well as a guideline for "fancier", unlisted, and/or impossible (floating mage's tower anyone?) building pieces. If you do this and allow someone to take the Landlord feat, you will need to either scale back the amount of gold provided or restrict it only being used for things within the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook.

Slightly off topic, but I've also found that Leadership is a must for making large scaled bases.

 

[Halivar]

Also check out Rules Cyclopedia on D&D Classics. The chapter on Dominions has rules for building strongholds that can be transplanted into any edition of D&D with gold pieces.

 

[Kristivas]

While there might very well be a specific product covering this topic, I'm not familiar with one. However, my easiest solution for this situation is to invite NPCs and their families to move into the village and work to repair and maintain it themselves. Perhaps offer initial materials stone, timber at your cost, offer loans or tax incentives. Hire stonemasons, carpenters, timberwrights, enough to do the job and within your location's budget. Having the PCs do the maintenance and repair tends to make for a boring game, so why I recommend the party invites locals to join the village community to do the actual maintenance. You can offer payments in lots of land surrounding the community in lieu of money, so the new inhabitants will improve the land themselves, at their cost. If members of the adventure party serve civic positions like a cleric as the local religious leader, the church can collect tithes from the worshippers for additional maintenance income and further ingratiate the party to the community.

Good call, and of course you're right. I don't want to use actual game time hammering nails and building houses. I see the PCs contributing more in the way of dealing with threats and perhaps bringing in resources, but will leave the actual menial work to the commoners and craftsmen.

Two books you might want try and track down are 3.0's "Stronghold Builder's Guidebook" and Pathfinder's "Ultimate Campaign". The Stronghold's building formula is a huge mess and everything is feel fairly expensive though the Landlord feat presented on page 10-11, really helps with the costs. On the flip side, the shear amount of customization the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook allow is nearly overwhelming. The Ultimate Campaign on the other hand, is significantly less varied, however, the rules for construction are simplistic and cheaper (and it provides the listed benefit for each piece). In addition, Pathfinder presents two ways to pay for a building pieces, either with gold or the [goods, influence, labor, magic] system introduced in the same book. You can check out a chunk of relevant parts of Ultimate Campaign here.

I've use both books in various campaigns as both a DM and a player. From my experience, I would use the Ultimate Campaign's building method as the baseline, while utilizing the Stronghold Builder's for ideas, the various magic items listed as well as a guideline for "fancier", unlisted, and/or impossible (floating mage's tower anyone?) building pieces. If you do this and allow someone to take the Landlord feat, you will need to either scale back the amount of gold provided or restrict it only being used for things within the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook.

Slightly off topic, but I've also found that Leadership is a must for making large scaled bases.

Much appreciated. I'm certainly going to check out both of those, and I think you've set me upon the right path.

Never really been much of a fan of leadership, though I think keeping the cohort in check will make it work out well. Had a recent discussion on Leadership and how to balance it when needed for things like filling ranks with minions, so I've got a plan in mind for that. It involved using an NPC Class (warrior, expert, etc) for the cohort and putting him more in a "guard the base/run errands" role than being a 2nd character that can be played in adventures by the PC.

Also check out Rules Cyclopedia on D&D Classics. The chapter on Dominions has rules for building strongholds that can be transplanted into any edition of D&D with gold pieces.

Thanks, I'll see if I can check one out if I can find a pal with the old stuff.