Buncha Buncha Action Point Questions

[stevelabny]

This asks for general opinions on action points, as well as the rules as written and possible house rule changes, so I put it in General. Feel free to beat me, scold me and move the post if necessary.

Ok, so I'm in full-on preparation mode for my new Eberron campaign. (Finally!)
And I'm currently looking at the handout for action point rules.

I played in a game with a homebrew action point system, where you could use 1 AP to add to a die roll, or 2 or more AP to do other special moves. The game was slow levelling so we got about 15-20 AP every level, plus would be rewarded AP for good role-playing or something heroic. For the most part, I thought the system worked fine but it was VERY complex and I feel even a tweaked-out version of the Eberron or Unearthed Arcana AP rules will be easier.

I know that I want the Eberron game to be slower-than-normal levelling, but a lot of the "how slow" will depend on how fast a pace the players play. (Including number of sessions, hours per session and time spent on fun role-playing/ exploring the world as opposed to gaining xp through combat or plot-forwarding)

I'm also concerned that I might wind up levelling the PCs slower at the middle levels that at level 1 or the higher levels. It is hard to know when to spend action points if you have no idea when you will be getting more.

1>For those that have played using Action Points, do you use the Eberron and Unearthed Arcana method of 5 + 1/2 level = AP for the entire level? If not, what other methods have you used?

I've thought about using the regular amount of AP but changing it from per level to PER SESSION, but fear that would be overkill. Especially during "boss-fights".

I've debated doubling the number of AP per level (and any feat/class ability that grants extra AP). But then I'm afraid that it would be even worse than the previous example if they all got saved for a "boss-fight".
2>Is using this method, but adding a "no more than 1/3 of your max AP can be used in a single session" rule too complex?

Then there's the issue of which action point uses to allow.

Eberron only lists adding to most d20 rolls, hasten infusion (for artificers), stabilizing, and using 2 points to activate a class feature. (instead of the 1 AP this costs in the UA rules)
3> As written, do you think either the Eberron or UA rules allow adding an AP die to an initiative check or a caster level check?
Neither mention initiative, they do include level checks. But if UA meant to include them, then the AP usage of improved feat: improved initiative and imrpoved feat: spell penetration seem silly. I'm leaning towards NOT allowing it toward caster level checks.

UA also lists other possible uses for AP:

Boost Defense doubles the AC bonus for fighting defensively. My players barely ever fight defensively, but I like the idea of using AP to boost AC.
4>Is granting a +2, +3 or +4 to AC for one round too much for one or two APs? (Besides making the improve dodge feat use useless)
It seems powerful, but we had a +2 for 1AP, +4 for 2AP in the game I was a player in, and for the most part, I would only use it if I stayed one round too long in melee for sneak attacks. The other party members barely ever used it.

Emulate Feat allows a PC to emulate any feat he doesnt have but meets the Prerequisites for. If I was playing, I could have fun with this but it seems llke it could be clunky in play as players use feats they aren't used to. Also, having the limitations of having to declare it at the beginning of your turn, and it only lasting for 1 round seem to limit some of the cool tricks you might otherwise be able to pull off. I would consider using an extra AP to use this as an immediate action, or an extra AP to make it last 1 or 2 extra arounds.
5> Is emulate feat a good idea? Are my changes making it too powerful?

And while I'm at it. It would really suck to emulate a feat, and then not be able to pull it off, so 6> Is allowing two uses of AP per round, one as a special action, and one as a die improvement too powerful? How about if I specifically make it one die improvement and one feat emulation?

Extra Attack: I much prefer the FEAT in Eberron that allows any move or standard action for 2 AP. drinking a potion + full attack is much more fun than having to always get one extra attack. I might bump this down to 1 AP if the action isn't used as an attack since it costs a feat also and I'd like to encourage other uses of the extra action BESIDES a 1 round haste.

Spell Boost: Increases caster level by 2. this seems fine, but I'm a bit worried that the extra 2d6 on damage spells will be enough to finish off some enemies when the first fireballs and lightning bolts hit the battlefield.

Spell Recall: Allows preparation-casters to keep a spell when they cast it. I definitely don't want to allow this. At higher levels, letting wizards get extra spells per day takes away one of the limitations that keeps them in check.
7> Am I wrong in thinking that spell recall is too powerful? If so, why?

Improving Feats: Pay an AP and double the bonuses from your feats where applicable (or get other improved varations of a feat like a single auto-hit with blind-fight)
I suppose this is ok as long as you tell the player's upon feat selection what the improved version of their feat is. But it could get annoying if player's keep coming to you asking about the improved versions of different feats to compare.

8> If there's anything I missed, or if you want to share your action point love-stories and horror-stories, let me know.

 

[Psion]

1>For those that have played using Action Points, do you use the Eberron and Unearthed Arcana method of 5 + 1/2 level = AP for the entire level? If not, what other methods have you used?

I was using the 5+1/2 per level, accumulating, but players were banking too many points for my comfort.

Evenutally, I decided to go with the Eberron model, but gave characters a number of "per session, use or lose" points. The players get one more of these points than dice they can roll to add to a d20 roll. These points are subtracted from the per level numer.

So at 12th level (where most of my PCs are right now), they get 9 points for the whole level, plus 2 per session use or lose.

2>Is using this method, but adding a "no more than 1/3 of your max AP can be used in a single session" rule too complex?

I wouldn't use it. But I've used more complex rules. You might argue that my rule is.

3> As written, do you think either the Eberron or UA rules allow adding an AP die to an initiative check or a caster level check?

I don't want to comment on what the rules say as I don't have it sitting right in front of me, but I allow it. Level checks come up too much and are often very important rolls. (Last night, the party was getting thrashed by a demon with an unholy aura up, and the druid was wasting a scad of 4th level spell slots trying to bring it down.

Neither mention initiative, they do include level checks. But if UA meant to include them, then the AP usage of improved feat: improved initiative and imrpoved feat: spell penetration seem silly. I'm leaning towards NOT allowing it toward caster level checks.

4>Is granting a +2, +3 or +4 to AC for one round too much for one or two APs? (Besides making the improve dodge feat use useless)

Probably not. I don't see it as any more potent than an additional attack in a full attack.

5> Is emulate feat a good idea? Are my changes making it too powerful?

To me, this is the "wild card" use of the mechanic, and has inspired me to create "implicit feats". I don't bother to look things up; if a player thinks up something they want to do, I think if I know of a feat that allows it or if there should be.

6> Is allowing two uses of AP per round, one as a special action, and one as a die improvement too powerful? How about if I specifically make it one die improvement and one feat emulation?

IMO, yes. Not too powerful (as I only allow players to slowly accumulate AP), but too flexible. I prefer that if players find they want to do something that requires them to use AP twice in one round, they consider taking the feat that would put them along the path and only require one feat.

I took the suggestion of having an "Action Hero" feat that allows you to spend one additional AP in a round, but nobody has taken it yet.

7> Am I wrong in thinking that spell recall is too powerful? If so, why?

I don't see a problem with it. It's one of the uses of the action point, AFAIAC. The fact that they have to immediately declare the use of it limits it somewhat. They can't decide 10 rounds later that they want to use a spell already case.

 

[derbacher]

I'm not going to try to answer all the questions, but here is the way I use Action Points:

I follow the Eberron Mark of Heroes RPGA rule that gives action points per session. The players have fewer total points, but they regenerate every game. So a 1st level character has only 3 action points to start. If they are still 1st level the next time we play, any spent points are returned and they start with 3 again. 4 points from levels 2 to 5, 5 points from levels 6 to 9, and so on increasing 1 point every four levels. They tend to actually USE the points this way, since they know the full allotment is coming back next session, and they don't add up form session to session.

As far as uses, I pretty much follow the rest of the Eberron rules for the use of action points, and find they work well. The only issue you raised that I would not allow is the 2 points spent per round. I think it does make things too powerful, and I agree with Psion that I would rather see the players take feats than spend two action points.

 

[reveal]

We use the Action Point rules from Eberron exactly as written and have never had any problem with them. They have come in handy many times.

 

[megamania]

As per the Eberron book. Most of my players (its been a year now) still forget to use the points more times than not.

 

[DonTadow]

Question 1. I use neither. I like them both, but I found the best method that reflected true luck is the one from book of rougish luck http://www.drivethrurpg.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2162

Question 1 b. what you could do is use the regular action poiints, then reward action points during game for great boutes of roleplaying or action. I do this. Though the fighter may get the fewest points his strong roleplaying earns him an extra action card during particlar parts.

Question 2 It's not that complex but you could just say a person can only use three a session. I'd use a partitcalr numbe.r HOwever, since I give out fewer action cards and have slow leveling, I don't put restrictions on it. Esseintially they don't know whats coming i tell them and if you want to use all your action cards on the skeletons be my guess

Question 3 -7
I think I answered one of your questions in Question 2 and I'm going to tell you my experiences with action cards and post my action card uses for you to check out.

A. I love action cards and put few restrictions on them. I have a list of actions theplayers can do but if a player in game wants to do something unique and innovative i determine how many action cards it may take and tell them to do it. Action cards represent that unique crazy moment when someone goes above and beyond. The most cards used in one of my sessions is when the players needed to fight a naga, none of them could cast the see invisibility scroll and the fight was looking grim. A player handed me all five action cards and said she wants to see if she can use her psychic abilities to trace the mage whom wrote the spell and somehwat make it out and transfer it to her pyshcic powers. This wiped her of action cards for the next 9 sessions but it made for some great drama.

My action card rules

Action Card Uses

Each character will action cards equal to the number of their luck roll. A character may use as many action cards per round as they wish unless the action they are using it for does not permit it.

New uses for action cards.



Add to roll: Before or after a roll, use 1 action point to either reroll the dice or roll a die (1-6 1d6; 7-13 2d4; 14-20 2d6) and add it to the roll for each action card you use.

Activate Class Abilty: You can spend 2 action points to gain another use of one of the following class features that has limited numbers of uses per day: bardic music, rage, smite evil, Stunning Fist, turn or rebuke undead or wildshape.

Boost Defense: A character can spend 1 action point as a free action when fighting defensely. This gives him double the normal benefits for fighting defensively for that entire round.

Emulate Feat: At the beginning of character's turn, he may spend 2 action point as a free action to gain the benefits of a feat he doesn't have. He must meet the prerequisites of the feat.

Spell Boost: A character can spend 1 action point as a free action to increase the effective caster level of one of his spells by 1. This must be done before the spell is cast.

Stabilize: When your character is dying, -1 to -9,, you can spend 1 action point to stabilize your current hit point total.

If you take damage that brings you below -10 you are not dead yet. You may immediately submit two action cards for every -10 of your HP total if you would have taken the damage. Then roll percentage. If you roll 1-10 percent, you character takes the damage. 11 to 50 your character's HP equals -5. If you roll 51 to 75 you reach -1; 76 to 95 will stabalize you at 0. If you roll a 96-100 your character deflects all of the damage. FThus, if your character would be at -29 after an attack, he may immediately submit 4 action points to stabalize. When stabalized, you may only make one single move action.

Spontaneous Casting: You can swap a signature spell with another spell on the fly for 2 action points.

Spell recall: Pay 1 point to gain 10 mana points

Action Surge: Spend 2 power points to perform an extra move or standard action.

Improving Feats: Spend one action point to increase a feat you already have. Examples INclude

Blind-Feat ( negate miss chance for a single attack),
Combat Expertise (double the bonus to armor class granted by the feats),
Dodge (double dodge bonus),
Improved Critical (double the threat range of critical),
Improved Initiative (double the initiative bonus),
Spring Attack
Cleave (temporarily allows you to use greater cleave)
Power ATtack (double the damage with no extra penalty on the attack)
Metamagic/psionic feats (cast the spell or power at normal level

 

[KB9JMQ]

We use Action Points in my Eberron game.
You get the RAW amount per level to use.
I let my players use there AP's to affect ANY die roll they wish to use it for.
It has never unbalanced the game so I will stick with this rule for the time being.
The funny thing is my players keep forgeting to use them when a very critical roll comes about.

 

[Telsar]

1>For those that have played using Action Points, do you use the Eberron and Unearthed Arcana method of 5 + 1/2 level = AP for the entire level? If not, what other methods have you used?

I give out one Action Point per session, that's use or lose. I may give out more than 1 per session once the PCs' level are higher (right now, they are second level). A player will typically remember to use the AP maybe every other session. I don't give any out for advancing a level, but I do give a bankable Action Point (can be saved over sessions) for useful contributions to the game, such as any of the following: writing up a background for your character, finding or creating a picture of a PC or recurring NPC, making up an interesting NPC for me to use (you get the AP when I actually use the NPC, so its helpful to make it someone that fits in with what is currently going on in-game), writing up an account of what occurs during a particular session (a session log), or any other work above and beyond just showing up to play.

 

[haiiro]

Question 1 b. what you could do is use the regular action poiints, then reward action points during game for great boutes of roleplaying or action. I do this.

I use this approach as well. The PCs get the normal amount of APs whenever they level up (and can do the listed things with them), and I also award them for memorable moments during play -- and the players can nominate each other for AP awards, as well. I like it.

 

[Staffan]

If you want to use AP per session instead of per level, you might want to look at the way they do it in the RPGA campaign Mark of Heroes. You get 3 AP at level 1, 4 AP at level 2-5, and one more for every 4 levels.