Butterfly familiar?

[Technik4]

I wouldnt give another bonus feat (wizards already get alertness when familiar is within 5 ft), again that sounds like IF range.

The good points about a butterfly:

Flight
Good AC
Good Touch Attack
Very low-key

Compare the butterfly to a crow, hawk, or even raven and youll see the butterfly, mechanically, is superior in many ways. That is why I suggested using IF. Although, with IF, it would be a "magical butterfly" so as to compare with a pseudo-dragon or quasit.

If you want it to be a normal familiar you still run into problems. All normal familiars (I believe) fall under "animals" in the MM. Perhaps a butterfly would too, just something to think about.

Technik

 

[Mike Sullivan]

How about "Master has access to the Dodge feat"

(...float like a butterfly, sting like a bee...)

in return for Dex 14 and low movement (see below)

While I agree butterflies look clumsy in flight, they can effectively hover and reverse direction almost instantaneously. OTOH, they're slow. I'd be inclined to give it 10ft move but perfect maneouverability.

I don't think they can really hover per se. Certainly, I think that while there's an argument for Good manueverability, there's just no way that a butterfly's arial agility is better than that of a hummingbird.

Dodge feat sounds cool to me, though I do point out that if I had to swat an insect (and I do, because I'm mildly insectophobic), I'd have a lot easier time swatting a butterfly than a normal fly, for example.

From Technik4
Compare the butterfly to a crow, hawk, or even raven and youll see the butterfly, mechanically, is superior in many ways. That is why I suggested using IF. Although, with IF, it would be a "magical butterfly" so as to compare with a pseudo-dragon or quasit.

Wait a sec, here. We're talking about an AC and a touch AC of 19 if he goes with a 20 Dex, and an AC and touch AC of 16 if he goes with a 14 Dex. A hawk, on the other hand, has an AC of 17, touch of 15. It's got a flight speed of 60, as opposed to our suggested 10, and an attack at +5, as opposed to no attack for a butterfly.

Granted on the "lower key" thing, but I think it's very arguable, even if you go with the 19 AC, that a butterfly even measures up to a hawk, much less surpasses it.

Oh, and the "good touch attack" depends on whether you give it "weapon finesse (landing on people).

EDIT: Added last paragraph, fixed code tags.

 

[Malin Genie]

I don't think they can really hover per se. Certainly, I think that while there's an argument for Good manueverability, there's just no way that a butterfly's arial agility is better than that of a hummingbird.

I agree it can't hover 'per se' (it flits around) but it can certainly stay in the air in the same 5ft area for a round, which is the technical definition of hover. Similarly, it can flit back and forth, changing direction without needing to travel a certain distance 'turning' - which fits with a rules definition of Perfect, even if I do agree with you that it isn't as elegant or precise in its movements as a hummingbird.

Either way, I think the idea is to make it less effective a scout/recon/flying-touch-attack-of-death-deliverer than the hawk/raven/owl which I think the 10ft move (and no bonus to vision) would indeed do even if it was granted Good or Perfect manoeuvrability.

 

[Kemrain]

I thought that you could only have animals aas familiars. Butterflies, as insects, are vermin. Just a thought.

- Kemrain the Mammal

 

[Sejs]

It's lousy in combat --

Nooo.. it's useless in combat - when was the last time you saw someone visciously mauled by a butterfly? It can do the standard touch-spell delivery thing, but.. that's it.

I thought that you could only have animals as familiars. Butterflies, as insects, are vermin. Just a thought.

So are spiders, and they're allowed as familiars.

 

[Malin Genie]

IIRC vermin familiars gain an intelligence score and take on type "Magical Beast." In doing so they lose the normal vermin immunity to mind-affecting magic.

See for example FRCS p27 "Hairy Spider" familiar.

Current thinking:
No bonuses to master
Low speed (10ft?) but perfect maneouvrability
No natural armour but keep high Dex (although maybe tone down to 16/18)

Advantages relative to Hawk/Owl/Raven
Smaller/less obtrusive
Higher AC
Better manoeuverability

Disadvantages
Poor scout (low movement, no Spot/Listen bonuses)
Can't really 'fetch' things (ST 1, size D)
No natural attacks (although can still deliver touch spells)
No bonus to master

Still happy to take suggestions, and thanks for the constructive comments so far!

 

[Hypersmurf]

In case it helps...

-Hyp.

 

[Malin Genie]

Special: A butterfly familiar grants its owner a +1 to all of his or her spell DCs.

Together with fine size and 30ft movement I think that version may be a little overpowered? (Although it has no attack, it will deliver touch spells at base +10 (before master's AB) due to the size, and has AC 23 for a 1st level caster!)

 

[knight_isa]

A good special might be +2 to all illusion (pattern) spell DC's. AFAIK, there are only 3 such spells (color spray, hypnotic pattern, rainbow pattern), so that shouldn't be too powerful.

I think I'd give it fly 20ft movement, too.

 

[Silver Griffon]

How about this:
Butterfly Familiar: Fine magical beast; Speed 0’ (a crawling butterfly can move 5 ft. as a full round action), fly 30’ (good); Init +4, AC. 22, touch 18, flat-footed 18 (size +8, Dex +4); Atk -- (+8 BAB, no attack form); Face/Reach ½ ft. x ½ ft./0 ft.; SQ granted abilities; AL Neutral; SV Fort +1, Ref +6, Will +1; Str. 1, Dex. 18; Con. 9, Int. 1, Wis. 12, Cha. 10.

Skills: Move Silently +12
Feats: Weapon Finesse (touch)
Special: A butterfly familiar grants its owner a +1 to all Charisma based skill checks.

Note that a maneuverability class of good still allows it to hover and fly backwards. I gave it 30ft. fly speed because I've seen people run after them. A flying creature can double move but not "run" at 3x or faster. I think 10 ft. is definitely too slow because a running child (speed 20 ft.) without a net is hard pressed to catch one. Of course it will gain HD, hp, Int, and natural armor as any familiar does based on its master's level. For skills, remember the +16 size bonus to Hide checks. I list weapon finesse (touch) because I believe it is appropriate when delivering touch attacks for its master and because I believe that 3.5E will include a rule that animals use Strength or Dexterity for attacks, whichever is better, as is used in d20 Modern. (This last bit is pure conjecture, but most natural creatures with low Str scores seem to have it.)