Buying and Selling Magical Items

[Wik]

In my experience, items that are just bonuses tend to be treated entirely mechanically. My Players look at their magic weapons and armour as just modifiers to their character sheets. However, the items that are non-combat in nature often get a great deal of attention - in my current campaign, the self-propelled grappling hook, the summoned phantasmal soldier who calls everyone "sir!", and the cloak of many pockets are the items that are used and remembered.

However, we don't have magical items sales or markets. I got so sick of the treasure packet/magic item system in 4e that I just let my players pick their items every time they level. They refluff things so that, basically, the characters have been using the same items since character creation. It's a lot less homework for me, and makes the game run smoothly. Though, in my next campaign, I'll be using the inherent bonuses houserule to get past that, and then I'll only rarely grant magic items.

That being said, in my future campaign (a Dark Sun campaign) there WILL be a magic item market - the illegal and underground elven market. And I hope PCs try to use it, because it will be a constant source of adventure!

 

[Stormonu]

I don't have a problem with minor "hedge" magic items being for sale, but the more powerful/expensive items I don't like making available just for cash. While the gp for magic items is supposed to be abstract of the actual process to acquire such an item, I prefer keeping the quests and aurdous acquisition present to keep it from becoming a petty exchange.

When I see players acting like they could do the equivalent of walking down to Walmart and picking up a Stinger missle to go deer-hunting, it rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm pragmatist and a capitalist. I even have a degree in economics.

A magic item is like anything else: a physical object that someone owns. If something similar comes along, you have a few options.

1. Leave it for someone else to find
2. Pick it up for your use
3. Pick it up for gift
4. Pick it up for sale

If you leave it behind, you run the risk of an enemy finding it, and you get no benefit.

If you pick it up for a gift or sale, an enemy may still get his hands on it down the road, but at least you get goodwill or gold out of it.

If you pick it up for your use, you run the risk of becoming overloaded. If you do get overloaded, you have the first, third and fourth options to fall back on.

So personally, I find no realistic way to justify outright disallowing sales of magic items.

However, that doesn't mean that the sale is going to be easy. In a place where magic is "evil", selling an item could get you arrested, possibly executed. If an item is extremely powerful, you might run into problems finding a buyer at your price.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think there's an immense gulf between buying and selling magic items and buying the exact magic items that you want to buy.

And if you maintain that gulf, then 'finding' the right magic item, or just an interesting magic item will be enough to keep things magical, even if you have to pay gold to get a hold of it.

The thing that makes magic items is not rarity of magic overall, or where you happened to find them. +1 swords are boring whether you find them, buy them or kill a god in hand to hand combat to get one. Tune overall magic rarity to your campaign, but don't think that low rarity is going to increase interest in boring magic items.

The thing that makes them interesting is that randomness. You never know what you're going to get. And if you apply that to party shopping trips, then it still applies when there is a magic item bazar that has rack upon rack of +x weapons (or any of the more boring common variations, like flaming. Not frosty though: frostcheese is just too strong an option, but fixing that is probably too much of a departure for this thread).

 

[Richards]

I've used several magic shops in my campaign. One was the result of running an adventure from an issue of Dungeon (Tim Hitchcock's "The Menagerie") which took place in a magic shop, but I wrote another adventure later that used the same shop as a starting place. (The whole shop got shunted to the Negative Material Plane - while the PCs were there shopping, naturally - by a lich who was building a planar craft that ran on magic items as a fuel source.) I also have a magic shop run by a gnome, Piddilink Dundernoggin, who often takes shortcuts in magic item creation that result in some interesting side effects.

In each case, however, most of the items for sale are consumables (potions, scrolls, wands), with the occasional higher-priced item in amongst the other stuff.

Johnathan

 

[howandwhy99]

We use a trade system with bartering rules. It's pretty much haggling down to the price both parties agree on a la diplomacy style games. The NPCs have a set price, but that isn't necessarily what a product is sold for. Outside of merchant shops there are no prices on items generally speaking. The players make offers and negotiate.

For magic items we trade with those who have them. For clerical items we hit up the temple. For thieves tools it's a trip to the black market.

Standard equipment, clothes, food, armor & weapons, homes & fortifications, and the like are in one or many spots in urban areas. The availability depends upon the size. So a general store and tavern in a town, but a bazaar, haberdashery, farmer's market, armory & steelsmith, and the mason's lodge are all open for business the big city.

In any case, we could just buy stuff off another person's back.

 

[Treebore]

I'm pragmatist and a capitalist. I even have a degree in economics.

A magic item is like anything else: a physical object that someone owns. If something similar comes along, you have a few options.

1. Leave it for someone else to find
2. Pick it up for your use
3. Pick it up for gift
4. Pick it up for sale

If you leave it behind, you run the risk of an enemy finding it, and you get no benefit.

If you pick it up for a gift or sale, an enemy may still get his hands on it down the road, but at least you get goodwill or gold out of it.

If you pick it up for your use, you run the risk of becoming overloaded. If you do get overloaded, you have the first, third and fourth options to fall back on.

So personally, I find no realistic way to justify outright disallowing sales of magic items.

However, that doesn't mean that the sale is going to be easy. In a place where magic is "evil", selling an item could get you arrested, possibly executed. If an item is extremely powerful, you might run into problems finding a buyer at your price.

Agreed. For my sense of "verisimilitude" I have to allow the buying and selling of magic items. I also assume people will stock pile most such items, because even if you can't use them, a small personal army equipped with your extra's becomes a significantly much more powerful small personal army, so that is how I justify keeping things on the rare side of availability.

 

[Celebrim]

I've gone backwards and forwards on this issue several times.

My strong feeling (in 3.x) is that if you allow spellcasters to take the Craft Magic Item feats, then you really have to also allow the purchase of magic items. Otherwise, you're handing a major bonus to players of spellcasters (already considered the most powerful classes in the game).

It's funny, but I've had a player of a Wizard in my game make absolutely the opposite argument. He claimed that you had to make Magic Items purchasable because otherwise, spellcasters would end up penalized with less XP than their counterparts.

At the levels I usually game in (1st through 12th), I don't find spellcasters particularly hard to balance with non-spellcasters. Especially at low levels, spellcasters are highly dependent on magical equipment for attacks and defenses. At low levels, a fighter can buy better quality mundane equipment. But barring a lucky find, a wizard must make his own defensive items or quickly become such a glass cannon that he risks death at every turn.

My general rules are:

1) Alchemists, Hedge Mages and Apothecaries are quite common. Potions may be found for sale in limited quanities in almost any town big enough to risk the name town, though in rural areas these may be limited to 0th and 1st level items. A limited number of magic items with cantrip like effects may also be found at the better stores (wand of detect magic, for example), although these may often be no more than baubles for the consumption of the upper class (Goblet of Wine Chilling, for example).
2) Potions and scrolls of up to 3rd level are available in limited quantities from large temples that the character is in good standing with. That is to say, regular worshipers who offer sacrifices and donations are allowed the first choice of any such items.
3) Any magic item can be readily sold, though must dealers simply lack the knowledge or funds to handle powerful devices so some care must be taken to find a dealer who won't cheat you and who recognizes an items true worth. Likewise, some dangerous items may require more work to find a suitably shady buyer.
4) Almost no powerful items can be readily purchased, but if the PC's gain sufficient upper class contacts they may be invited to infrequent auctions where 2d4 items of random quality are put up for sale by dealers who specialize in such things. These are invitation only affairs, and many of the buyers are powerful governments, temples, societies, etc. Particularly covet worthy devices may fetch considerably more than there usual price, to say nothing of the envy of the losers.
5) If the PC's except service with a powerful lord, they may recieve an item as a gift for services. Giving out such items is considered essential to maintaining your reputation as a noble or ruler, which partly explains why so few magic items are on the market. (The other explanation is the same as why so few Hellfire missiles or Claymore mines are available in retail shops.)
6) Some items may be made on commission by a suitable NPC who views the players favorably. This works just fine, so long as you are willing and able to wait a few weeks for your item.
7) Otherwise, find stuff. Why else do you go down into dark dank dungeons except for the gizmos of great power?
8) When in doubt, give out/place fewer more powerful items (often that have powers that are revealed as the character gains levels) rather than many weak items. Not only does it reduce book keeping, but it tends to make the player more happy to have something iconic in their possession rather than being decked out like a christmas tree.

 

[LostSoul]

I don't allow magic items for sale as a general rule because I think it lessens the rewards for exploration of the setting.

 

[Lanefan]

I think there's an immense gulf between buying and selling magic items and buying the exact magic items that you want to buy.

And if you maintain that gulf, then 'finding' the right magic item, or just an interesting magic item will be enough to keep things magical, even if you have to pay gold to get a hold of it.

This, this, and this again.

The thing that makes them interesting is that randomness. You never know what you're going to get. And if you apply that to party shopping trips, then it still applies when there is a magic item bazar that has rack upon rack of +x weapons ...

Absolutely.

Think about where those for-sale items came from, and why they are for sale.

For my part, I never assume the PCs are the only adventurers in the world. there's other parties out there, doing other things - and bringing other items and gype back to town to sell. Given this, it's beyond credibility to assume magic will never be traded; even if such trades only occur on a black market they'll still take place.

To figure what's for sale in a given place, here's a quick-and-dirty list:

1. Look at what your party is selling off and then extrapolate: other parties will likely be looking to trade or sell off the same sorts of things.
2. There will occasionally also be something ridiculously expensive for sale mostly because nobody can afford it and the owner can't afford to keep it.
3. For minor stuff (potions, scrolls etc.) think about what the town itself can produce, though I always assume most of those get snapped up pretty quick by others so there's not often loads of 'em available.
4. Throw in a random factor - maybe someone important just died and their old magic is being sold by the executors of the estate - and there you go.

I once tried writing a program to give me random shopping lists to save all the dice rolling - it took far too long to do and then was horrific to change later to include different items - hindsight tells me it was a colossal waste of time. But I still cringe when a party gets to a large town or city and ask "what's for sale?" due to the time it'll take me to give a useful answer.

Lan-"but why buy when you can steal?"-efan