C&C Demon Princes & Lords conversion.

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Hi all. I'm converting the demon princes and such over to C&C from thier 1e/2e sources. I'm using the MM & MMII as main sources with some stuff pulled from the two Planescape Monsterous Compendium books.

Converting the non-unique demons is pretty easy. I'm basically using thier 1e stats fixed for C&C mechanics with some of the boosts they got in the PS stuff.

For example

Manes (Sub-Demon)
NO. ENCOUNTERED: 4-16
SIZE: S (3’)
HD: 1 (d8)
MOVE: 10’
AC: 13
ATTACKS: 2 claws (1d2), bite (1d4)
SPECIAL: +1 or better weapon to hit, SR 2
SAVES: P
INT: Animal
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic Evil
TYPE: Extraplanar
TREASURE: Nil
XP: 9+1

Pretty much standard 1e conversion with the 10% magic resistance of the 2e version tacked on.

For HD purposes I'm going this way,
Sub - d8
Lesser/Minor - d10
Greater - d12

Now according to these conversions a Type VI is going to be less powerful than the larger dragons and that's fine. But for the unique demons I want them to be tougher. So I'm looking at HD in the 35+ range with AC of 30+. Does this sound reasonable? Has anyone else converted them over yet? Do you think I should stick to stright HP comparisons of the 1e sources? Should Graz'zt have higher HD than Orcus since it's 186 to 120 in the 1e books? Would Zuggtmoy have a higher HD than Demogorgon since she has him in HP 233-200? I'm thinking I'm going to depart from the 1e stuff in this. Zuggy is a mighty demoness and surely greater than any mere Lord, but she shouldn't be on Demogorgon's level IMO.

I'm just conflicted on how to assign HD values. I don't want them to be too powerful so a party of the 20th level range could stand a few rounds in combat with them, but I don't want a Demon Lord to be a punk compared to a ancient Gold Dragon.

 

[Xzuatl]

Well it all really depends on how you view the function of demon lords in the game itself. IMHO Demon Lords should be a fight that PCs would get into anyway, so there is no real need for stats. But since there are campaigns where PCs vanquish a Demon Lord as its highlight i think that they should be as tough as possible.

So in light of this I think HD is only a small piece of the problem. A HD of 35+ would almost assure said Demon Lord of always getting a hit in combat against well armoured PCs. Now the amount of HPs come into play based on how much spell resistance the Demon Lord has. A couple high level spell casters will knock down 200 hp in a hurry. It would take C&C fighter types quite longer to do the job.

So I guess I would keep HPs in line with 1e sources but add in good SR and immunites.

My 2 cp

 

[MichaelH]

Hi all. I'm converting the demon princes and such over to C&C from thier 1e/2e sources. I'm using the MM & MMII as main sources with some stuff pulled from the two Planescape Monsterous Compendium books.

Converting the non-unique demons is pretty easy. I'm basically using thier 1e stats fixed for C&C mechanics with some of the boosts they got in the PS stuff.

For example

Manes (Sub-Demon)
NO. ENCOUNTERED: 4-16
SIZE: S (3’)
HD: 1 (d8)
MOVE: 10’
AC: 13
ATTACKS: 2 claws (1d2), bite (1d4)
SPECIAL: +1 or better weapon to hit, SR 2
SAVES: P
INT: Animal
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic Evil
TYPE: Extraplanar
TREASURE: Nil
XP: 9+1

Pretty much standard 1e conversion with the 10% magic resistance of the 2e version tacked on.

10% magic resistance means that the spellcaster fails on 2 numbers if you are using a d20. So the SR should be 3. If the spellcaster rolls a 3 or better on the d20 roll, he penetrates the creature's SR.

I would enjoy seeing any conversions you make. The Troll Lords have said, however, that a forthcoming book will contain the demons and devils. It might be awhile, though.

 

[teitan]

He has it right, it would be a 2.

Jason

 

[radferth]

SR scores seem to be lower in C&C than either 1st or 2nd ed. IIRC the creature in Monster & Treasure which had the highest MR in 1st or 2nd is the Remoraz, which had something like 75% in the old versions, but only about 5-7 in the new version (about 35%). So if you want to stick to the C&C paradigm, I'd consider nixing it for the guys with low (25% or less?) magic resistance, and have it about half its value for others. Of course, feel free to ramp it up for the uniques.