Calculating Damage

[Jack99]

And can you point to a specific example in the book where this is clarified? My group has had some arguments about these two things.

The PHB states that you add enhance bonuses and feat bonuses to your attacks. The power states if you add your str (or another stat, or, in this case, no stat) to the damage. Since the power says nothing to contradict the general rule, which is to add enhancement and feat bonuses, you still add those, even though you don't add a stat bonus.

It's page 276 in the PHB.

 

[TimeOut]

Actually, re-reading the PHB, I might have been hasty. The part about extra damage mentions implements, magical weapons as well as high-crit weapons dealing extra damage on a crit, and not maximizing said damage. SA and similar damage does not get added on a crit, it's already there, so by that logic, it would make sense to maximize it.

PHB, page 278, "Critical Hits"

Maximum Damage: Rather then roll damage, you determine the maximum damage you can roll with your attack. [...]

Since SA adds the damage to the attack, I would assume that it is maximized. But, some lines below:

Extra Damage: Magic weapons and implements, as well as high crit weapons, can increase the damage you deal when you score a critical hit. If this extra damage is a die roll, it's not automatically the maximum damage; you add the result of the roll.

The question is: Does this only refer to the 3 things listed, or does SA count as "Extra Damage on a critical hit"?

 

[Mort_Q]

SA would be applied regardless of whether or not you rolled a crit. The question is, does it count as part of your damage roll or not.

 

[Jack99]

See my edit above. Dunno if it helps...

 

[Xfer83]

Bonus Striker Damage & Crits

Curse and Sneak Attack all use similar language referring to adding additional damage after rolling damage. (Quarry text differs somewhat)

Pg 131 for warlock
"If you damage a cursed enemy you deal extra damage. You decide whether to apply the extra damage after making the damage roll. You can deal this extra damage once per round"

Relevant & repetitive Critical hit information
[sblock]
Pg 278
"Maximum Damage:
Rather than roll damage, determine the maximum damage you can roll with your attack. This is your critical damage. Attacks that don’t deal damage still don’t deal damage on a critical hit."

And

Pg 278
"Extra Damage:
Magic weapons and implements, as well as high crit weapons, can increase the damage you deal when you score a critical hit. If this extra damage is a die roll, it’s not automatically maximum damage; you add the result of the roll."
[/sblock]

To me, this suggests that the additional sneak attack or curse(or quarry) damage is added after the "damage roll" step. In the case of a critical hit, the damage roll step is automatically maximized, THEN the sneak attack or bonus whatever damage is added, much like the bonus damage die from magic & high crit weapons.

This is, of course, not very clear, because sneak attacks and the like are not specifically mentioned under the extra damage section. Although, Quarry, Curse, and Sneak Attack are specifically referred to as "Extra damage" in their explanatory text.

 

[TimeOut]

After seeing the explanation of "after the damage roll step", I would agree with Xfer83.

Crit = Max Roll Damage + Modifiers + SA roll

 

[TimeOut]

Sorry for double post, but this includes a bump for new, relevant information:
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4301100&postcount=31

 

[KoshPWNZYou]

Bit of confusion about the Fighter 5 attack Rain of Steel (and any similar powers). Just want to confirm that I'm following this correctly. It's a Personal power that doesn't require any attack rolls and its damage (1[W]) is listed as an Effect rather than a Hit result, but it's an attack rather than a utility and it has the Weapon keyword.

Since it has the Weapon keyword, the weapon's enhancement bonus applies to the damage, correct?

But since the 1[W] is an Effect rather than a Hit, it isn't subject to any other bonuses? I can't add any feat or power bonuses to the damage? I can't sneak attack if I hit with combat advantage? I can't activate any hit-triggered powers on the weapon? And without a roll I obviously can't crit. Basically, the enhancement bonus is all I get?

Please correct me if I'm wrong there. Thanks!

 

[Surgoshan]

The weapon's enhancement is applied to all attack or damage rolls made using that weapon. Things like sneak attack, hunter's quarry, etc are all added after you've rolled damage, at the player's discretion.

 

[Mouseferatu]

My understanding from a previous discussion on this topic is that everything is maximized on a crit except damage that you added because of the crit. So while the extra damage dice a weapon gives you for critting would not be maxed, sneak attack would be.

Unfortunately, I cannot at the moment remember the source of this, so I can't back it up or confirm its validity. I do wish the book was clearer on this.