Calling all min maxers!!!!!

[Stone Angel]

Ok here is the low down. 3.5 campaign with two dm's running two different groups in the same area and same module. The module is Rapanthuk or something it is made by Sword and Sorcery and is supposedly the mother of all dungeon crawls? But isn't everything these days. Now I have no knowlege of which groups I will be taken into. Group 1 is a mostly tank party of five or six. One of which is a sorcere/fighter and another who is a ranged fighter or ranger? The other is almost the opposite. Group 2 is of about five or six characters who are mostly ranged fighters the frontliner being a cleric and there is supposedly a MU in the mix somewhere also but not sure on the specifics.

So....I need a Wizard I think but it is also trap heavy and they have no rouge either. So a Wizard or a Rouge. I am told that we have a 32 buy system + a d8 rolled that goes straight to stats. No stat can be maxed above 18 unless it is racially possible. (i,e, 18+2=20 con for a Dwarf). I am not sure about magic items but we will say standard and at best I can weasel a little more out of them. We can use anybooks we want except savage species. Character starts at 4th. Templates are allowed but not sure which ones so we will exclude those for now. And I was instructed to min max the hell out of the guy, and I suck at that kind of thing, so I need your best. Thanks in advance

The Seraph of Earth and Stone

 

[Matafuego]

I don't know how Point Buy works (ever since I started playing ADnD roling for ability scores was the way to go, and as a DM I have come up with some weird and interesting methods for rolling, and I also love characters with big stats and big big weaknesses, mwahahahaha)

With regards to the class I would go for the Rogue, it's almost undispensable for a Dungeon Crawling Party (specially since you know it will be Trap Heavy).
My last Rogue was a Halfling one, a Spider-loving Halfling, kinda like a Small Spider-Man (¿a Spider-Ling?), but since Halfling is too cliché you may also consider another race (I dislike Elves but they seem to be the next best choice, High Dex is very important for Dungeon Crawling)

I would throw another good score at intelligence so as to get as many maxed out Rogue Skills as you can(very very helpful)
I would max out Search and Disable Device (traps traps traps!!).
And then it depends to you, the Halfling had Maxed Out Listen, Spot, Move Silently, Use Magic Device (very important when the Cleric is down and you have a Wand of CLW), Jump (He was a Spider-Manish remember..., plus he had some creepy jumping ring), Climb, Open Lock and Tumble (he got Pick Pockets, now I seem to recall it's called differently, later on when he increased his intelligence)

Always remember that Sneak Attacking is very very important (specially when it's something like +4d6) so I recommend getting a good melee (flanking!!) and a good ranged weapon (it works up to 30ft but only when surprising, no flanking there)

I wish someone could offer you some more help

And the most important thing is that you are comfortable and like the character! Don't play a Rogue if you don't feel like it, play whatever you want and if things go wrong at least you had a good time

 

[Mista Collins]

I would also recommend the rogue if you are comfortable playing a rogue. The skills I would focus on first are the trap skills (search and disable device). Then I would try and go with scouting skills (Hide, Move Silently, Listen, Spot) then I would probably go with Open Lock and Use Magic Device. Those are the first 8 skills. And if you have a bonus in INT or are human (which I highly recommend) I would go with Tumble. As for your feats, I would probably choose feats that are combat related. The reason I recommend human is because of the extra feat. The feats I would select at first level are Dodge and Mobility (so you can get spring attack at 6th level). And my third level feat would vary. I would probably go with Weapon Finesse so that you have a better chance of hitting things.

This is just a rough idea. Hope this helped a bit. Maybe I will add more later as I think of more. But right now I am tired and need sleepy

 

[Stone Angel]

Awww c'mon. All the min maxer "dieties" on this board and no help? Well I have decided to go as a Rogue, Drow rogue1/ftr 1 actually. I am however open to ideas right now. Can't go wrong with spell resistance. I have decided to base him off of Artemis Entrari (sp?). He will dual wield 2 s. swords. I have also played with the idea of using green ronins "Assassin" masterclass. Well I can sure use some help. By the way for my stats I have the 32 pts. and I rolled a 6 to add directlyto any stats that I choose. And I start out with 6,200 gold for gear and magic items. So let me have your best

 

[BSF]

Well, one of the things that is kind of funny about EN World is that the folks here aren't too eager to tell you what kind fo character you should play. But, once you have figured out the character, they can help you create it as efficiently as possible. At least, that is my observation.

That being said...

You say a Drow eh? Spell resistance is good, but you are sacrificing 2 levels to get it. You are looking at a SR of 13. Rogue and fighter are not preferred classes, so you will need to advance both of them at pretty much the same rate to avoid any exp penalties. Fortunately, this is a dungeon, so you won't need to worry as much about your light vulnerability.

Stats - Don't worry about maxing out Str, you will be using Sneak Attack to compensate. If it is a mega dungeon crawl, without much NPC interaction, then you don't need Cha, or CHA based skills too much. High Dex is a necessity. High Int keeps you developing more skills. It sounds like you get to add your 6 points after your point buy and before your racial mods. You should be able to come up with a pretty good build if you use the 6 bonus points to push you up in the top of the scores. As a sample, look at this:

Stat   Pt Buy       Bonus     Racial     Total
Str:  12 (4 pts)                               12
Dex:  15 (8 pts)     +3         +2          20 
Con:  14 (6 pts)                  -2         12
Int:  15 (8 pts)      +3         +2          20
Wis:  14 (6 pts)                               14
Cha:  8 (0 pts)                   +2          10

Feats - You will have a 1st level feat that you can use on Two-Weapon fighting (Since it doesn't have a BAB req) For your 1st Fighter Feat, I would seriously consider Weapon Finesse so you can use your Dex bonuses to hit.

Skills - I would probably maximize skills over HP. Take your 1st level in Rogue to get the 1st level x4 bonus on the skills. This will give you (8 + 5) x4 = 52 skill points at 1st level. You could choose to max out 13 skills. Remember that with each level of fighter, you can bump your jump and climb, so don't spend too many skill points on those with your rogue levels after 1st.

Not much of a start, but let's see if this starts to suit your needs and if anyone else wants to add to it.

 

[EtherHulkRending]

Well I can sure use some help. By the way for my stats I have the 32 pts. and I rolled a 6 to add directlyto any stats that I choose. And I start out with 6,200 gold for gear and magic items. So let me have your best

Actually, I would have to ask you to ignore Drow. At such a low level picking a level adjustment class is going to cost you hit points and that is a particularly necessary commodoty. I woud recommend dwarf for a dungeon crawl for three reasons. 1. the con bump is always handy for a fort-weak, low-hp class. 2. Darkvision is invaluable for a party rogue/scout so you can be ahead scouting. 3 your stonecunning lets you notice unusual stonework, basically allowing a free search check if I remember correctly which can be invaluable to catching some traps that you forget to ask to search for.

for stats as a fouth level rogue
Base racial 6 to add
Str 12
Dex 17 +3
Con 14 +2 +2
Int 13 +1
Wis 12
Cha 8 -2


net stats then 12,20,18,14,12,6

skills
Max out, search; disable device, open lock, hide, move silently, spot, listen, tumble, decipher script,

and split points up until you achieve 5 ranks in jump and balance, they are both very useful skills to have and you never know when you'll need them. Also look at knowledge (arch and engineering) for the skill synergy

Feats
1. improved init
3. weapon finesse

Gear, um...
+1 Studded Leather Armor, masterwork thieves tools, +1 weapon, masterwork buckler

AC 20 for a 4th level rogue isn't bad

gear to get later, all are good
different material weapons
goggles of minute seeing
lens of detection
boots/cloak of elvenkind

 

[EtherHulkRending]

oops, I missed an important detail,

since they can't be maxed above 18 I would take two points away from the Dex and add them to the Int instead, or maybe Con since racially you could take it to 20

 

[Arc]

In general, unless you're going for a very specific smackdown (usually high-strength/damage), races with level adjustments are a bad idea. The loss in BAB, HP, and feats usually outweighs the gain in a few abilities that won't scale with level. That SR, for example, becomes useless around level 10. Yay! The enemy mage has to roll a 3 to suceed!

With that in mind, a dwarf is a very strong contender for best PC race. The bump in Con gives you survivability that comes in handy for all classes, and the loss in Cha is negligable in a pure dungeon crawl.

For a class, I'd go with cleric, not rogue. Find Traps is a second level spell that will give you trapfinding abilities akin to a rogue's, and a strong mix of buffs, debuffs, and melee ability come in handy as well. If going the route of the divine caster, try to convince your DM to allow varient cleric classes from Dragon magazine (I forget exactly which issue). The Evangelist offers spontaneous casting for divine spells (somewhat like a sorceror), along with extra domains, and the Arcane Disciple gives up some anti-undead abilities for the boon of learning 1 arcane spell/level (as if it were a divine spell). Being able to both heal and nuke will be give you plenty of reason to try it.

For stats, pump wisdom, then constitution, then dexterity. Full plate or a breastplate are ideal armor choices for a defensive cleric, and a strong shield is useful as well. In my experiance, survivability is the best goal for a character design, as offensive methods are far more expensive (weapon enchantment bonuses, etc)

 

[Halivar]

In general, unless you're going for a very specific smackdown (usually high-strength/damage), races with level adjustments are a bad idea. The loss in BAB, HP, and feats usually outweighs the gain in a few abilities that won't scale with level.

Keep in mind that racial Str increases can help offset the loss of BAB for level, and Con increases can do the same for HP's.

Take, for example, the were-races. With some heavy munchkinizing (but still well within the rules), I was able to build a were-tigeress monk that, IMHO, is not too shabby. When the other players put together 'away teams,' they say, "Oh yeah, we're taking her."

Of course, replacing class features is a bad idea. But for classes that don't get any (such as fighters) it's a bit easier.

Also, races with innate sorceror or cleric levels are a great way to compensate for losing spellcaster levels.

 

[Ace]

My suggestion would be to go with a standard Rogue not a Drow one. The Drow Race just isn't worth the 2 levels it would cost you

With 32 point buy (+1d8) I would suggest

Str 14
Int 14
Wis 14
Dex 14
Con 14
Cha 10

Assuming 4 points add on put them in dex. This is a very tough character and quite balanced. If you get more points dop them in CON. If you see comabt you need all the HP you can get

As was stated before take your scouts 8 (Move Silent, Hide, Disable Device, Open Locks, Spot, Listen, Search, Use Magic Device.) Drop your extra 3 points from INT and Race into Tumble, Jump, and Climb

If you expect water trim 1 point from a few of the skills and put into Swim

If you want more melee punch (and better weapons) take 1 level of fighter (just 1 or 2 is all you need) it will give at least 2 more HP and better Fortitude Save. Oh yeah and an extra feat and more BAB

Feats are a little tougher -- I like the above suggestions

H1 Improved Initiative
1 Weapon Finess

also usefull
3 I am not sure what maybe Combat Reflexes. If you take a level of fighter -- swap this feat for Iron Will and use the fighter bonus for Combat Reflexes

Items, HMM
assuming standard amounts this means 3300 GP

You will want a bunch of gear -- call it 300 worth

For your magic stuff well you could get a +1 Weapon and if the GM lets you have mundane gear free you might talk him into a Mithral Shirt. Thats about 400 (with gear) over level

Otherwise you could get +1 weapon and MW Studded Leather, A burned out IOUN Stone (if the DM Still allows these, they aren't in the 3.5 SRD) with a continual flame spell on it (150gp) or just 2 Continual Flame Items (on Coins) just in case 1 gets lost.

Don't forget a few potions (like Silversheen) alchemical items (tanglefoot bags) and if there is any money left - a few magic arrows/bullets for a sling

As an odd choice, basic gear (300-400) + either a Horn of Fog (for emergency back up) or as a nasty surprise (once only though) an Elemental Gem. Or for that matter Type 2 Necklace of Fireballs.