Campaign Setup Issue

[Acid_crash]

Sometimes when I have began a campaign, sometimes I tell players to create their characters and then go from there in designing the campaign, and other times I've made detailed character handouts, player information and house rules into a document (sometimes in excess of over 25 pages... probably too much)

I'm trying to figure a happy medium to where the players will want to look through, possibly read in depth, and keep the handouts... but trying to figure what information to put into it is sometimes a pain.

The last tiime I had them just make characters the characters turned out to be so opposite that the game blew up in all our faces. I also know that some players don't like to have too many limitations placed on them, even if the limitations make sense.

-- I have a friend that, no matter what type of game is being played, what the other players agree on, or something else... he asks for something that is outside the allowed list, simply to be different.

So... what do all of you do for your pre-campaign handouts, and have any of you also felt like this? What do you all put into them?

 

[dave_o]

I think that no more than the front and back of a sheet of printer paper is a good size. My inital handouts usually include a paragraph or so of overall flavor text (maybe a small scene that sets the tone for the game, or an overarching narrator type of thing that gives a perspective on the world at large at the beginning of the campaign), information about the area in which the campaign starts, and whatever information pertains to how the characters relate to each other (if that stuff has been determined beforehand).

That said, I do some planning before people make characters, but the bulk of the first adventure type stuff comes once I know what they're playing.

For instance, for my upcoming orc game, my handout will probably consist of flavor text centered around a scene with the cruel warlord the PCs will begin under, then some information about the local environs, and finish up with info about how the PCs know each other (as they've presumably lived under this warlord for at least a few years). Probably pretty maps and pictures too.

 

[SpiralBound]

Perhaps in your player handout, you can organize info in terms of what opportunities for character creation and adventuring your setting/campaign offers, rather than listing what they can't do. Obviously, if you've banned Bards, Sorcerers, Gnomes, and flails for example, then you need to mention this somewhere, but focusing more on the "can"s than the "can not"s may make the players more receptive to your campaign concept.

As for a guideline for eyeballing how much setting background to give them. Trying reading it out loud to yourself in a monotone voice. When it starts to become boring, then that may be a good length to stop at! Seriously though, a player handout for the beginning of a campaign should only give enough info to let players gain an overview feeling of the setting and campaign. If you find yourself explaining "specific setting aspect X" so that they'll fully understand "setting reference Y", then you're getting too deep into it and you need to back off a little and gloss over things a bit more. Save those details for when a player does a knowledge skills checks or for when you're planning out an adventure and want to make sure that various nations or npcs are properly behaving as per their motivations that you've set up in your reference writeups.

One thing I've learned in worldbuilding over the years is that no one is as interested in it as you are. As the creator of everything, nearly every detail of the setting, history, political or social dynamics, unusual customs, unique gods, etc are all very interesting to you - after all, most worldbuilders only create details for the bits they really find interesting. Not really a fan of creating flora and fauna ecologies? You'll likely gloss over that aspect of your world, instead saying "it's like earth's plants and animals, but with D&D monsters added". Meanwhile, if you're a history buff, you'll gleefully chart out numerous wars and treaties that fill your settings's history, plotting who hates whom and why, etc, etc. Chances are even another history buff won't be as intrigued in it as you would be cause they didn't create it. So only give players the bare minimum they need to know "what's different" about this setting as compared to any other. "Big picture" level info only.

 

[Nyaricus]

One thing I've learned in worldbuilding over the years is that no one is as interested in it as you are.

That is all too true - but don't let it discourage you (I know I haven't allowed it to get to me yet )

Honestly, if you are not doing the full-blown campaign sourcebook, you shouldn't bother to write 25 pages of notes. keep it precise and concise.

List the classes and the races. List the equipment allowed. List the PrCs allowed. List the other books allowed. List the stuff you are banning. Write a maximum of 3 paragraphs on any important region that the PCs could be from, and don't get bogged down into minor details that are, in actuality, only important to you, or until important in the actual game.

Write a half page 'kickstarter' of your campaign world, with a brief overveiw of major events in your campaign, and again, MAJOR events. This could be important stuff from the area they are from, or from the world at large. Just don't get bogged down into details, as I said.

I dunno, I realise I'm kinda rambling right now, but tell me if anything helped you figure this (fine line) out. Hopefully I'll make more sense another day

cheers,
--N

 

[Eben]

Handouts are a waste of time. It's a narrative game, not a reading club. Give your players a general layout of the setting and tell them what kind af characters you're looking for. Personally, I go pretty far and I tell them what kind of classes and races I want to see. This avoids dwarven pit fighters in a campaign that revolves around teh political relations between an expanding human empire and a the neighbouring Elven nations. New character options usually open up during play.
Talking your players through the setting and defining a few character concepts that fit the campaign is helpfull for the players as well, because they start thinking inside the campaign world. And when you get them there, you can feed them (individually or collectively) detailed info that they would skim over if you gave them a written handout before.

Peter

 

[buzz]

Talking your players through the setting and defining a few character concepts that fit the campaign is helpfull for the players as well, because they start thinking inside the campaign world.

Yup.

I don't think I'll ever start another campaign that doesn't begin with a chargen/worldbuilding session, or at least email discussion. The whole concept of the DM building everything in isolation and then doing a big info-dump on the players... and expecting each of them to, in isolation, create PCs that will work together perfectly is just unrealistic. I have yet to see a campaign where this methodology didn't eventually devolve into disappointment.

Find out what knid of campaign the players are interested in, and then talk about what you're interested in, and look for the middle ground. Then, brainstorm character concepts together. Make sure the players form bonds between their PCs that add glue to the party and give them all a reason to be invovled in the campaign.

 

[Greg K]

I find the prepwork of culture (e.g., subsistence, economy, social structure, mores, technology, body ornamentation, naming conventions, major npcs, institutions, religion), recent history for each culture along with major historical events, is very beneficial to my knowledge of the setting and in keeping things consistent. However, once I have the cultures and other details worked out, it can benefit the player at the character generation session ( and even later in the campaign).

I know which classes and/ or class variants might be restricted to specific cultures and which do not exist in the campaign at all

I can use culture do help lend some additional distinction and possible roleplaying hooks that fits the setting through dress, body ornamentation, general cultural attitude, class variants, cultural weapon groups.

I can give characters ties to npc's and institutions. For clerics and Paladins especially, not only do I have the domains for deity worked out, I can proivde dogmas and tenets so the player knows what behavior is expected of the character.

I can give them bits of starting knowledge that someone from another culture/region would not have. Knowledge or recent local events might even serve as hooks for character background and a hook for adventuring.

 

[Nyaricus]

Handouts are a waste of time. It's a narrative game, not a reading club.

I disagree - why else are there so many options in D&D 3.x, as well as previous editions? Someone recently went through just how many options there were in AD&D, and I was actually impressed.

Point is, while I wouldn't call D&D a 'narrative game' or a 'reading club' in and of itself, it does lend itself to both sides of the equation you present us. I can't tell you how amny hours I've spent reading and re-reading sourcebooks.

YMMV, but that's my take on it, is all.

 

[buzz]

I disagree - why else are there so many options in D&D 3.x, as well as previous editions? Someone recently went through just how many options there were in AD&D, and I was actually impressed.

It'll depend on the group. I certianly don't think D&D mandates that you compile a setting bible, but if your group is big into created worlds, they may find reading it part of the fun.

 

[Nyaricus]

It'll depend on the group. I certianly don't think D&D mandates that you compile a setting bible, but if your group is big into created worlds, they may find reading it part of the fun.

True that, I actually just found out that my new player (who's dad played/plays with Steven Ericson, famous author and GURPS GM) is actually very proficient in Publisher and Adobe Writer and is going to help me create a professional-looking Campaign setting/PHB for my D&D world for the group

I can also see the other side, where people just want to break down some doors, kill things and take there stuff. 'To the their own...' and all that