Campaign structure: combining the sandbox and adventure path

[Imaculata]

Anybody explicitly balance only certain plot-relevant encounters to party level? I.e. most encounters are in a status quo sandbox, not adjusted to party level, but main storyline encounters (or adventuring days/small dungeons) are re-balanced to provide a dramatically-tough-but-doable challenge for the party whenever they progress to them (or when the DM decides to introduce them as "bangs").

I balance encounters on the current level of the players, regardless of when they arrive at that part of the sandbox. And upon revisiting an earlier area, I'll rebalance the area to provide an appropriate challenge, and I'll find a good story reason to explain why these opponents have suddenly become a lot tougher.

For example, my players encountered a tribe of cannibals on an island when they were only level 1 (it was the start of the campaign). The cannibals were an appropriate challenge at the time. But eventually they'll return to this island to get rid of all the cannibals, but now they are epic level. And so they'll encounter some of the tribe's toughest warriors, who can challenge an epic level party.

For verisimilitude you could say that the BBEG is spying on the PCs and beefing up their defenses appropriately, or something like that.

This I definitely do. My villains take notice of the actions of the players, and improve their defenses. But the reverse is also true; the players can spy on the plans of the villains, and stop them from beefing up their security. For example, during the course of my campaign the players uncovered a plot to create a gateway somewhere at sea, that would allow living ships from the realm of the dead to come to the surface. The players were able to stop this plot, and so now the villains don't have their fancy new harbor. But they'll probably try again.

It would be sort of like the inverse of milestone leveling -- instead of leveling the party as it feels appropriate for the story (which totally neuters sandboxing, at least as I understand it), you 'level' the story as it feels appropriate for the party. Anybody recognize that as their go-to campaign structure?

What I tend to do... but I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing here... is introduce greater threats as their level increases. My campaign has been working towards a big epic naval battle from day one, but this will not happen until they've reached a certain epic level, and a certain part in the story. Seamonsters tended to leave them alone when they were just low level, and sailing in a tiny little ship. But as they got stronger, and got a better ship, they also became a more tasty snack for the horrors of the deep. I would not have them be attacked by a kraken unless I knew they could defeat a kraken.

I also have some areas in the sandbox that are deliberately high level (they are 4 challenge ratings higher than their level). Not unbeatable odds, but it means they're going to get hurt... a lot. And there's a high chance for fatalities if they choose to take on these odds. I make sure to communicate this clearly to the players, by means of story telling and setting the scene. In my sandbox there are no artificial walls that say: "not unless you're at least this level".

 

[reelo]

I'm also planning of embedding my LMoP campaign into a bigger sandbox (with bits and pieces of SKT thrown into the mix) but while scaling encounters to the party is pretty standard, I wouldn't adhere to CR too strictly. I vividly remember being fed up with the Elder Scrolls Oblivion game, when I kept running into roadside bandits and robbers equipped with daedric armor and weapons, just because I happened to be of the appropriate level.
The sense of immersion is much greater if you occasionally run into easier encounters, or into foes that are beyond your capabilities and you only manage to escape by the skin of your teeth. Having CR slavishly match party level becomes frustrating quickly.

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[payn]

The Kingmaker Adventure path by Paizo attempts this dance. Its success varies based on who you talk to. I think it does a decent job though of combining sandbox with linear adventuring.

 

[TheNoremac42]

In my current campaign I created a multi-leveled labyrinth dungeon with the BBEG on the bottom floor. I created the encounters for each floor by calculating approximately what level the PCs would be as if they had cleared the previous floor. So each floor gets progressively harder in its encounters.

 

[Soul Stigma]

In my current campaign I created a multi-leveled labyrinth dungeon with the BBEG on the bottom floor. I created the encounters for each floor by calculating approximately what level the PCs would be as if they had cleared the previous floor. So each floor gets progressively harder in its encounters.

This is the original concept, believe it or not, of D&D. Dungeon levels equaled PC levels, so you didn't want to go to level 2 of the dungeon until you completed level 1 and your character leveled up. Obviously this concept was only good for a literal "game", less an RPG, and the game grew from there as a result. Totally different animal today.

 

[werecorpse]

My technique is to try and use story arcs of various length and antagonists goals.

Sandbox elements of the game are mainly antagonists and goals (small, if any, story arcs). So they might be a tribe of orcs and their goals might be any of raid local farms or merchants, conquer a village or plantation, defile an elven temple or summon a demon. Destroying or routing the tribe might be a 9th level adventure but defeating the raids might be 1st, protecting the village or temple might be 3rd or 5th, disrupting the summoning say 6th or 7th.
Another sandbox element might be a nest of basilisks - their goals might be simpler so an interaction could be meeting a hunter (2nd) dealing with a pair kicked out of the nest and trying to establish a new nest at the bottom of the monastery's vineyard(3rd), or eliminating the nest(5th)
- so when the characters "encounter" these threats you can decide what type of threat they are presenting.

For story arcs I tend to have some elements that are pretty much just foreshadowing and also a number of steps that the enemy have to take to achieve their nefarious goal, a vague idea of what level these would be appropriate to intersect with the player characters and what happens if they do. For example say I have as a BBEG a lich trapped somewhere trying to escape and finish a ritual to wake the tarrasque. I might decide that to escape the prison the lich needs a few maguffins, a special book, the bones of someone who killed it last time and the fresh hearts of some supernaturally magic resistant creatures. So I create a mid level-BEG who is the lich's servant who:
1. Hires some goblins to break into the tomb of Sir Julip and steal his bones (level 2 adventure)
2. Does some favour for the thieves guild so they steal the book from the collection in the temple (level 4 adventure)
3. Offers some bounty to the party to capture a mind flayer (level 8 adventure)

I shepherd them toward an adventure of the freeing of the lich (say level 9) when the lich gets free but success for the party is if they can kill some of his allies and discover his evil plan.

Then the party is likely to be more proactive chasing the Lich or trying to thwart his plan. If the party fails to deal with him then at some point when they are in their high teens level wise omens will direct them towards the Lich riding his tarrasque to destroy the capital.

An important thing about story arcs is to have one that ends. Not every bad guy needs to be fought at the the culmination of the campaign. Having a smaller arc about a battle for supremacy of the thieves guild is fine - the players can defeat the master rogue and end his plans to blackmail the regent at say 7th level. This doesn't prevent them from getting caught up in the plots of the Lich etc. but it does help them feel like they have achieved something concrete - that what they do actually matters, not that whatever they do the BBEG plot just steamrolls along.

Also let the players thwart the odd plot at an early stage - you then have to think about what does the antagonist do now? Maybe nothing, maybe the good guys have defeated him for the moment and you need to come up with another foe. That's ok too IMO.

 

[Libramarian]

Some very interesting posts in this thread, thanks everyone.

I think I have decided that I don't really want an AP-style plotline. I just want a very simple goal to direct the sandboxing throughout, like putting together the Rod of Seven Parts or something like that.

I'm also going to put more prep into NPCs and track their goals with a timeline. I think that will give me the additional complexity and narrative coherence I'm looking for while still allowing me to spend most of my prep time on the details, as is my wont.

Over the weekend I'm going to peruse some adventures and settings to see if anything grabs me.

One campaign I've always wanted to run is a hexcrawl in Greyhawk using the old Darlene map, but with the hexes being 6 miles across instead of 30. That would also allow me to try out these Greyhawk-themed tables for generating local politics and plots, which is tempting.

 

[S'mon]

One campaign I've always wanted to run is a hexcrawl in Greyhawk using the old Darlene map, but with the hexes being 6 miles across instead of 30. That would also allow me to try out these Greyhawk-themed tables for generating local politics and plots, which is tempting.

6 miles/hex might be a bit small, but 12-15 miles/hex should give country sizes similar to medieval Europe I think. I think the 1983 set human populations should prob still be x5, so eg 5 > 25 million for the entire Great Kingdom.