D&D 5E Can a bladesinger take Lance proficiency with Training in war and song?

[jasper]

I am playing a Goblin Wizard and I need to pick a "one-handed melee weapon" to be proficient in when she gains level 2. Technically a lance does not have the two-handed property even though you need to wield it in two hands when not mounted so I think I can take it?

I think having the reach and the 1d12 damage would be nice situationally, especially when combined with the goblin disengage. I know she can't use it in bladesong (unless mounted) and she can't use it well with the blade cantrips (because of disadvantage within 5 feet), but she will still have her staff for that.

Proficiency with a lance allows you to add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll for any attack you make with it.
You have disadvantage when you use a lance to attack a target within 5 feet of you. Also, a lance requires two hands to wield when you aren't mounted.
Properties Reach, Special
So it is not a one-handed melee weapon. It is a special. So I say NO.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I see nothing in the rules against it, though it certainly goes against the spirit of the rules.

Really my only compunction is that the whole "small pc on a mastiff" thing often turns into the mastiff getting abstracted away whenever it becomes complicated or inconvenient, and the PC just getting a bunch of extra movement without any downside. So if someone came to me wanting to take lance for a goblin bladesinger, something that itself is going against the intent of the subclass's abilities in favor of the letter, even with them never having breathed a word about wanting a mount, I would worry that a plague of mastiff-related powergaming and rules lawyering was almost sure to be on the horizon. But that has nothing to do with the intrinsic question of the lance.

 

[ECMO3]

I see nothing in the rules against it, though it certainly goes against the spirit of the rules.

Really my only compunction is that the whole "small pc on a mastiff" thing often turns into the mastiff getting abstracted away whenever it becomes complicated or inconvenient, and the PC just getting a bunch of extra movement without any downside. So if someone came to me wanting to take lance for a goblin bladesinger, something that itself is going against the intent of the subclass's abilities in favor of the letter, even with them never having breathed a word about wanting a mount, I would worry that a plague of mastiff-related powergaming and rules lawyering was almost sure to be on the horizon. But that has nothing to do with the intrinsic question of the lance.

I am not going to ride a mastiff. I would just be carrying the lance.

 

[Clint_L]

A lance is not a one hand melee weapon. I would be a big nope on that one because it’s an obvious attempt at an RAW exploit to try to get a d12 one hand weapon. It makes no sense.

Also, I would be annoyed with you for trying to get exploits into the game every week.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I am not going to ride a mastiff. I would just be carrying the lance.

As I gathered. My point was simply that when a DM with a modicum of system mastery hears that someone wants to roll up a small race bladesinger with lance as their bladesinger weapon, they're natural conclusion is that the player has visions of filling their game with mastiff cheese, whether that is fair to the player's actual intentions or not.

Another issue with the lance would, of course, be "where are you going to put it?" Most tables are okay with a lot of handwaving of all the weapons people have perpetually at the ready, but I suspect small PC who just also has a pole with a ten foot reach in their backpocket is a bridge too far even for many very liberal handwavers.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

A lance is not a one hand melee weapon.

Of course it is, it's almost always used in conjunction with a shield. What it isn't is a weapon that can be effectively used unmounted.

I would be a big nope on that one because it’s an obvious attempt at an RAW exploit to try to get a d12 one hand weapon.

The OP makes it clear they would be using the lance two handed. Where it effectively becomes a pike. Bladesong only ends when the character attacks with a 2-handed weapon. If they are casting spells they can do it just fine holding a long pointy stick.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

As I gathered. My point was simply that when a DM with a modicum of system mastery hears that someone wants to roll up a small race bladesinger with lance as their bladesinger weapon, they're natural conclusion is that the player has visions of filling their game with mastiff cheese, whether that is fair to the player's actual intentions or not.

The lance should have the "heavy" property added. That would prevent small race shenanigans. Although I don't feel that it's overpowered.

 

[ECMO3]

As I gathered. My point was simply that when a DM with a modicum of system mastery hears that someone wants to roll up a small race bladesinger with lance as their bladesinger weapon, they're natural conclusion is that the player has visions of filling their game with mastiff cheese, whether that is fair to the player's actual intentions or not.

Another issue with the lance would, of course, be "where are you going to put it?" Most tables are okay with a lot of handwaving of all the weapons people have perpetually at the ready, but I suspect small PC who just also has a pole with a ten foot reach in their backpocket is a bridge too far even for many very liberal handwavers.

For small strength-based martials a Lance is one of my favorite weapons.

I did have a lance with my recent Kender Paladin (actually a Dragonlance at the end of the campaign) and this was a theme, she carried it around in her hand. That particular character spent a fair amount of time mounted, but she took her lance into the dungeon with her too (without a mount).

The comical image of Kender walking around with the huge Lance that was twice her height was part of the roleplay and theme (along with the rest of the arsenal she carried).

Although it may seem comical, a halfling walking around with a lance is not any worse than a human walking around a dungeon with a pike. If you allow humans to use pikes, the length of the weapon should not be an issue. A lance is generally about 7 feet long or twice a halfling, a pike is about 15 feet long or twice a human.

This particular Bladesinger is a strength-based martial, although being 2 handed does conflict with the bladesinger theme, so I get that part but the small part is not that bad IMO.

 

[ECMO3]

The lance should have the "heavy" property added. That would prevent small race shenanigans. Although I don't feel that it's overpowered.

If you did that there would be no reach options for small races except a whip. Small races are already disadvantaged by not being able to use heavy crossbows, longbows, Halberds, glaives or greatswords effectively. If you took away lances too who would ever play a small martial?

 

[Mort]

For small strength-based martials a Lance is one of my favorite weapons.

I did have a lance with my recent Kender Paladin (actually a Dragonlance at the end of the campaign) and this was a theme, she carried it around in her hand. That particular character spent a fair amount of time mounted, but she took her lance into the dungeon with her too (without a mount).

The comical image of Kender walking around with the huge Lance that was twice her height was part of the roleplay and theme (along with the rest of the arsenal she carried).

Although it may seem comical, a halfling walking around with a lance is not any worse than a human walking around a dungeon with a pike. If you allow humans to use pikes, the length of the weapon should not be an issue. A lance is generally about 7 feet long or twice a halfling, a pike is about 15 feet long or twice a human.

This particular Bladesinger is a strength-based martial, although being 2 handed does conflict with the bladesinger theme, so I get that part but the small part is not that bad IMO.

Off topic, but having just started a bladesinger - have to ask.

How did you manage a strength based bladesinger, they're just so MAD? What are the stats?