Can a paladin be an assassin?

[s/LaSH]

The Code requires honour. Honour generally doesn't hold with killing someone who can't see you; see Hamlet or various samurai stuff for the global acceptance of this principle.

That said, from a certain perspective a paladin assassin makes a great deal of sense. Suppose a corrupt merchant has some hired guards. The guards don't know the merchant is evil, but the paladin does. Should the paladin kill the guards to stop the merchant selling slaves (or whatever), or let the merchant continue? The solution to this ethical dilemma is to give the paladin the opportunity to sneak past the guards, maybe scale a sheer wall and cut her way through a third-storey window or something. Then she bursts into the merchant's office, throws him a sword, and challenges him to prove his righteousness.

Depending on the precise paladin and deity, what happens if the merchant drops the sword is going to vary. Some gods would say, Kill him, he has had his chance. Others would say, Spare him, he is defenceless. Which is a little more complex, of course. Maybe a few ranks of Intimidate to spur him into picking up the sword again?

And after the quick little fight, a quick getaway out the window. Maybe set fire to the building, although that's fairly chaotic and most paladins wouldn't use it unless it was strictly necessary.

Well, that's my thought on the subject. There are bound to be exceptions, of course; the paladin is a character based on ethics, and there's no spreadsheet to calculate morality so strict answers are a little hard to come by...

 

[Mark Chance]

The Code requires honour. Honour generally doesn't hold with killing someone who can't see you; see Hamlet or various samurai stuff for the global acceptance of this principle.

Hamlet? I can only assume you're thinking of the Act III, scene iii, in which Hamlet spies on Claudius while Claudius is praying. Hamlet refuses to strike from hiding and kill Claudius at this time not because of it would be dishonorable, but because to do so would ensure that Claudius would die with his sins forgiven and ascend to Heaven, whereas Hamlet wants Claudius to die so "that his heels may kick at heaven, and that his soul may be as damn'd and black as hell, whereto it goes."

The irony is that, after Hamlet exists, Claudius rises from prayer and admits that: "My words fly up, my thoughts remain below: Words without thoughts never to heaven go."

Examples of murdering samurai later rising to power also exist. The honorable samurai stereotype is just that: a stereotype. He exists largely only in fiction or hagiography.

 

[Nifft]

I'd require that any Paladin wishing to act like an assassin:

1) post posters in a public place showing an official proclaimation which condemned his target to death;

2) didn't use poison; and

3) didn't kill innocents.

The posters in (1) must be obtained legally and must represent lawful authority -- in other words, he's got to be hunting someone whom the State has legally condemned to death.

-- Nifft

 

[Tonguez]

The posters in (1) must be obtained legally and must represent lawful authority -- in other words, he's got to be hunting someone whom the State has legally condemned to death.

But what happens if the Ruler of the State is the Fell Evil Doer that the Paladin is sworn to bring down? No Poster, No State Condemnation thus No Paladin?

 

[Kerrick]

The posters in (1) must be obtained legally and must represent lawful authority -- in other words, he's got to be hunting someone whom the State has legally condemned to death.[/qote]

Bingo. The Fist can only hunt someone that he has been specifically authorized by the church to hunt, and the criminal must be wanted by the law. He can't just go chase down Bob the Bandit who stole some money from a few people, unless bob is the leader of a gang of bandits who have been preying on travelers on the King's Road for a year and a half. In any case, he can't use poison, and he must pronounce sentence on the targt, which means the target knows what's coming.

 

[Particle_Man]

another option

Dotf has a prestige class called "consecrated harrier" I think. they are allowed to use disguises and be sneaky until they finally can face their target (without innocent guards in the way). Then they throw off the disguise, announce that the church of X has condemned Y to death, and proceed to hack Y into bloody chunks. I think a paladin could take this prestige class.

Mmmmm....bloody chunks. I think I will get a hamburger.

 

[Gez]

Not the Assassin class anyway, which reflects the death cultist/hashishin/ninja/thug type, and requires to enter an evil brotherhood.

 

[Balgus]

I can see them as a bounty hunter. Anything below that would make them unlawful.

I can just picture a paladin sneaking up to a corrupt lord and stands there waiting for them to turn around, arm themself, and then slashing his throat- only after saying "prepare to defend yourself against my unexpected attack!!"

 

[Nifft]

But what happens if the Ruler of the State is the Fell Evil Doer that the Paladin is sworn to bring down? No Poster, No State Condemnation thus No Paladin?

Yup. But note: a Paladin wouldn't be allowed to work for or within such a government anyway.

A Paladin wouldn't consider such a state as existing under a legitimate authority -- so any pronouncement by such an illegitimate government would NOT be treated as legal.

This sort of Paladin would be strictly bound to a legitimate authority.

-- Nifft

 

[WattsHumphrey]

It depends heavily on the GM, but it is possible.

It wouldn't be possible in any world I GM. The assassin's guild you're joining would be the ones picking the target. As such, they'd pick someone at random and you wouldn't be able to get away with honorably removing them.