Can a system that allows Players to make any magic item in D&D be balanced?

[John Out West]

One of my goals in the pursuit to create better crafts includes Artificing; magic item creation. After a few iterations, we created a version of Artificing that no longer can target and attack every creature in the world or change places with the gods, however I'm sure we missed something that will cause a catastrophic failure of the whole system. I would love if you would help me find the flaws in the system.


Artificing Theory & Balance:
Beyond the initial goal of a zero-gold system, where players don't have to buy anything to create magic items, we also wanted to make a craft that was balanced for the GM. In this case we created two drawbacks for Artificing: Thaumogenesis and Gemstones.
Each Artifice requires a Gemstone, which controls its capabilities. If GM's don't put gemstones in their player's inventory, or put very small flawed gems in their loot boxes, they won't be able to create overpowered items.
In Thaumogenesis, each Artifice creates an Anti-Artifice, a living creature connected to the item that cannot be destroyed without also destroying the magic item. The Anti-Artifice is a reflection of it's creator, and slowly learns to hate the Artificer, eventually coming to kill him. The Player is forced to destroy the Anti-Artifice, or find a way to avoid him until the connection between him and the item is broken. With Thaumogenesis, GMs are able to threaten players who create too many or too powerful items with Nemisis-like monster, forcing them to craft cautiously.


Those are the very basic ideas. The system has a 3 page introduction, another 5 to elaborate, and 11 of actual abilities you can imbue into an item. You can find the Artificing rules here.


I'd love to get your opinion on the subject, as well as any thoughts on the system itself.

 

[GMMichael]

It's a great idea, but you're going to need a catchier hook to get players to read 19 extra pages of rules.

Just curious: why shouldn't it cost money to make magic items? It costs money to make everything else. Except for grass-whistles. Those can be made without money.

 

[John Out West]

Haha, yeah no matter what it was gonna be a hard sell. I'm creating several systems for crafting that have zero gold input.

I'll start by saying that you're wrong, the only thing that costs money is labor. A Blacksmith doesn't need money to smith, he needs Ore and Coal and tools. If he's willing to go get it himself, he can skip the gold altogether.

That is the main philosophy of my crafts, that Players and GM's should have reasonable explanations for what they need in order to craft, not unidentified reagents with a dollar sign attached. They still can pay for goods, but what they are paying for is someone else to go get their materials for them. In this case, it would be paying for a diamond miner, as well as an Anti-Artificer. An Anti-Artificer is someone who charms the Anti-Artifice into thinking that they are the Artificer, allowing the real artificer to move on with their life while the Anti-Artificer chases the wrong target.

EDIT: And if I were to pitch it, i would ask you to read the first three pages, and if you're not hooked by then I would understand.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Crafting magic item doesn't need money really but "residium". Other option is magic item created by PCs cause "backlash", for example summoned creatures to punish spellcasters. Other option is crafting need special ingredients and this means a monster hunt.

Other option to avoid a Christmas tree effect could be the item isn't realy magic but more a focus, a material component and the spellcaster has to spend spells to activate.

 

[Blue]

You are effectively turning Gemstones into part of the character advancement math. If this is taking the place of other items, and is less powerful (because it's more customized) then it's net neutral for the mechanics.

If it's in addition to other items or is as/more powerful, then it's not "balanced" against the standard foes and encounters. Foes should be beefed up (without change in XP) to match if you want to keep party vs. world balance.

I didn't go through the 11 pages to see if they would help all characters equally, so I can't really address intra-party balance.

Note that Thaumogenesis is a plot hook connected to the item, not a mechanical balance. I'm using the word mechanical there very specifically, talking about in-mechanics points of balance.

 

[Lanefan]

Without reading your whole system, my first thought is that while any system that allows PCs to in effect make their own items might be balanced between characters, it's probably going to make the party unbalanced vs. the world at large. You'll end up needing to make their foes and opponents correspondingly more powerful, which just becomes an arms race. Danger, Will Robinson!

The same holds true even if there's a required resource (be it gold, gemstones, kegs of beer, or whatever) that can be limited or capped: the PCs still get to optimize their items. This takes away both a) the fun of finding a really useful magic item in the field (if it was that useful they'd have already made one) and b) the fun of having to improvise with what they have.

The only way to make this work is if crafting items takes a whole lot of time, and PCs are thus forced to choose between adventuring or item-making...or are forced to commission items that won't be ready for a year or two, by which time the PCs will be higher level and may have already found something better.

 

[John Out West]

Hey Luis, you're pretty much describing both the Artificing system as is, as well as the Magic Item system in Westbound, the Tabletop RPG I made before this. its so eerily accurate that I feel like you might be trolling me...

Hey Blue, I agree with you, but only in that we seem to differ in our fundamental philosophies. I agree that, in a Dungeon Crawl scenario where Combat is king, anything beyond the Gold+EXP equation will tip the scales one way or the other.

However, in an Open World scenario with a balance of combat, exploration, and social interactions, there is no "Balancing Math," as the open world aspect means that the players adjust to the world and not the other way around. In this case, gaining power does not increase the difficulty of the world, but the difficulty of challenges the players choose to seek. Rats do not become more fierce, instead the encounter is skipped as it is deemed too trivial. This is the philosophy I typically use.

Now, when I said "Balanced for the GM," I meant that Artificing does not cause the game to come to a halt, generally because a player became too powerful. The question of Balance in this case is, "Does Artifcing break the game?" or another way of putting it, "Does Artificing make the job of the GM harder?" I would argue no, but i would love to hear what you have to say about it.

Similarly, Thaumogenesis cannot be quantified in numbers or points, but in risk and fear. Would you risk creating a powerful creature, or do you fear for your safety. In my limited experience in testing the system, most players give in to fear rather than create a magic item. In a Dungeon Crawl scenario the creation of an Anti-Artifice would be balanced by the increase in difficulty derived from the new enemy Anti-Artifice that joins the enemy ranks.

 

[Shasarak]

Gemstone crafting sounds quite similar to the Diablo gem system which to be honest sounds like a bit too much grinding mobs to get drops to me.

 

[Eltab]

Do you mean balanced before, or after, the PCs craft their magic items?

In my experience, the point of a magic item is to get an advantage vs the rest of the world.
- a more-damaging sword
- never run out of food
- climb ANYTHING (including slippery cliffs)
- protect me vs Falling damage
- pop a spell scroll for something I normally can't cast - surprise!
- deliver the enemy's one weakness "kryptonite" at him and exploit the opportunity.
- a unique signature item that combines several features Ex: 4e Accurate Dragontoothed Wand of Eldritch Blast (so I can zap people through keyholes in the door)

 

[John Out West]

Hey Eltab,

The question of balance for this craft is not for the player, as any advantage is a net positive, but balanced for the Game Master. Can a player use this craft without breaking the game for the DM or making the DM do too much work? I would argue no, that while the player can make almost anything they want, the GM still has fundamental control over the input and output of magical items. (Gems and Anti-Artifices)