Can an Illusion of Cats Damage a Rat Swarm?

[Trench]

I am very lucky (and cursed) to have players who think outside of the box when it comes to spells.

The situation: a rat swarm is barreling down on the PC's.

The Illusionist's solution? To cast a Minor Image of a swarm of yowling cats chasing after the rats.

So what do you think? If the swarm fails the spell DC, what happens? Total dispersal of the rat swarm? Do they take damage? I have to say I'm impressed by the cleverness and wouldn't mind rewarding the guy...

 

[Nifft]

What would happen if the caster was instead able to cast summon swarm and put a swarm of, I dunno, spiders in the way of the rat swarm? I think they'd fight rather than running away. An illusion of a wall of fire (with thermal effects) would ward them off, I'd imagine, but not a mere animal. Not when they're in swarm form.

However, I also think it's a very clever idea, if not entirely legal:

This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you.

An object, creature or force -- not a swarm of creatures.

Because it's very clever, I'd let it work once, and let him know that it won't work again.

Cheers, -- N

 

[lukelightning]

Figment spells, like minor image, lack the ability to cause damage. Also the rats would not be fooled by anything less than major image, since not only would it be silent but it wouldn't have a scent.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Minor image has sound.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/minorImage.htm

 

[lukelightning]

Minor image has sound.

Oops, I better brush up on my illusions since my new character is a beguiler!

 

[Trench]

Here's a thought I had reading these over. So figments can't do damage correct? How about treat is a Cause Fear spell? Rats scatter and turn tail for the affected rounds as a horde of illusionary cats chase them? Is that more palatable?

 

[lukelightning]

Again, the spell can't do anything outside the scope of a figment: creating an image. I would possibly treat it as intimidation, but I'd say the best you can do is delay the swarm for a moment.

Figment



A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. (It is not a personalized mental impression.) Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language you can speak. If you try to duplicate a language you cannot speak, the image produces gibberish. Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like.

Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding or delaying foes, but useless for attacking them directly.

A figment’s AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier.

 

[frankthedm]

Full grown humans won't cause moral failure in a swarm of rats, niether will an illusion of houscats.

they treat the cats as a target until it is proven the illusion holds them no interest. They swarm the cats, If the rats fail the will save - try to gnaw the cats, fail to get a mouthful of tasty cat meat and head for the nearest valid target next round.

 

[Hypersmurf]

An object, creature or force -- not a swarm of creatures.

But a swarm 'acts as a single creature'.

Depending on whether that means "takes actions like a single creature", or "interacts with the rules as though it were a single creature", that might make it Silent Imageable.

-Hyp.

 

[Nifft]

But a swarm 'acts as a single creature'.

Depending on whether that means "takes actions like a single creature", or "interacts with the rules as though it were a single creature", that might make it Silent Imageable.

Actually, looking at the swarm template's language, it looks like it is a valid silent image, thanks to the second line:

For game purposes a swarm is defined as a single creature [...]

... but I'd still say that a swarm of rats which isn't afraid of multiple fire-wielding humans (assuming you have a torch) wouldn't be afraid of a few scentless cats. However, it's clever, so I'd let it work exactly once -- and let the player know that it only works AT ALL because of his creativity!

Cheers, -- N