Can an inherent bonus be greater than +5?

[scifan888]

The Wish spell says that an inherent bonus to a single ability score is limited to +5 maximum (pg 370). However the abyssal sorcerer bloodline Strength of the abyss power grants an inherent bonus to Strength of +6 at 17th level (pg 73). So, does this mean the inherent bonuses greater than +5 are possible or is this a mistake? Is there any official ruling or errata on this?
Can Wishes / Miracles grant permanently other types of bonuses such as a permanent luck bonus?
How about a permanent deflection bonus to AC?

 

[Glade Riven]

Magic and magical items are limited to an effect of a maximum of +5 to an ability score, attack roll, or AC, and never stack. Usually this is stated rather clearly, but occassionally there are "loopholes" - but it is a general rule of thumb as a part of 3.0, 3.5, and Pathfinder game design and if I was DM I would rule as such. As the bloodline ability that is not a spell effect, the bonus to STR from the bloodline does stack with magical effects.

As for Wish/Etc, that depends on what the Game Master will allow. That level of play gets a littly crazy, anyways.

 

[pawsplay]

As the bloodline ability that is not a spell effect, the bonus to STR from the bloodline does stack with magical effects.

If I am understanding you correctly, I disagree. The bloodline grants an inherent bonus, which overlaps with (does not stack with) other inherent bonuses, such as those granted by wishes.

 

[Glade Riven]

That's what I get for not doublechecking the spell before posting...

Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three wishes for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.​

The technical answer is "Yes, but..." as that sorcerer bloodline does allow for a +6 inherent bonus, but Wish cannot be used to boost it further (as the rules of wish do not stack with the bloodline bonus). Near as I can tell from the rules, other magical items (or temporary spells, such as Bull's Strength) would stack with the inherit bonus. I could be reading something wrong, though.

 

[Dingo333]

I dont know if it helps but my dm rules that bonuses of the same type do not stack

ie one sacred bonus will not stack with another

yes in hinders some buff style characters but it also simplifies things in most cases

 

[jefgorbach]

Guess the follow-up question (likely answered someplace): The Wish's inherent bonus is an Instantaneousness permanent adjustment to the base ability score and thus not subject to dispelling/etc.

As such, the "inherent bonus" rules would only apply during the instant the spell is cast, since the resulting base stat would no longer be "bonused" but rather simply BE the revised number ... thus bloodline adjustments, buffing, etc WOULD enhance that number per normal ??

 

[Dingo333]

In the end, it falls to the DM to decide.

I see the logic in your statement, but as the effect that increased the stat was an inherent bonus and the power also gives an inherent bonus, at 17 level, your str would still be base +6(power of the pit) (+racial, increase due to level(s), enhancements, sacred, profane...) the power of the pit would override the +5 from wish, but should you drop below 17 level due to drains, the +5 from wish would kick in and you would only lose 1 point in str overall

 

[scifan888]

What the bloodline power seems to suggest is that inherent bonuses greater than +5 are possible and that the statement limiting inherent bonuses to +5 is incorrect. Has this question ever been addressed officially?

 

[Steel_Wind]

I would point out that an inherent bonus and an enhancement bonus will stack.

So Tome of Clear Thought (inherent bonus +5) plus Headband of Vast Intellect (enhancement bonus, +6) = +11 INT, for example.

 

[Dingo333]

I would point out that an inherent bonus and an enhancement bonus will stack

In my post I did not say those wouldn't, but a headband of vast int would not stack with a casting of fox's cunning for example

as for an inhancemet bonus of greater then +5, I believe that either the power of the pit is an exception or wish/miriacle is limiting only itself, in the end, it is a DM desicion because rules are not clear