Can flying creatures tumble?

[Anubus]

Well, any opinions? Can a creature with a fly speed tumble in the air?

 

[The Amazing Dingo]

I don't see why not. Instead of using the ground for a basis of jumping, flipping, twisting, etc. the creature would use its wings and momentum in order to do such.

I would add in a negative modifier though for such, especially if the method of flying was not a natural one. But even for natural flyers, I think a penalty would be in order.

 

[uzagi_akimbo]

Well, while tumble is defined by bouncing, rolling and zig-zagging on the ground, aerial creatures should use it analogously - e.g. by aerobatic stunts, like barrel rolls, loops, sideway slipping etc.

Although I would limit it by the manoueverability of the creature with poor flyers being able to use only a very low maximum number of ranks, increasing to any amount (or maybe a bonus ) with (perfect) flight. After all flight does come in differing varieties of skillfulness, unlike walking.

If we are talking mount and rider combinations, I would be very leery though - either the mount is in charge and "aerobatics" in, which would mean its rider will likely have a very hard time hitting anything as he clings on, or the rider is in charge which would mean his directing efforts would hamper or cancel out any "innate" aerobatics/tumbling skills on part of the mount.

 

[Boddynock]

A character of mine was once involved in a battle on two fronts - ground and air. My Fighter/Rogue elected to take on the dragon (along with an airborne wizard) via a borrowed cloak which enabled him to fly. His reasoning was that, with impressive dexterity and maxed out Tumble, he could fly rings around the beastie while carving it to ribbons. The barbarian - big, SOLID, slow - and the other characters stayed on the ground to battle the ??demon?? (I think that's what it was) and the small army accompanying it.

The wizard flew behind the dragon while I moved in front of it, declaring that I would "draw it's fire!" It was at that point that the DM said, "Tumble? While flying? No way!" The dragon then spat an explosive charge (don't ask) and my 13th level character was down to single digit hit points in the first round. So in the end, I had to fly back down, wait for the barbarian to do his bit on the ground, hand him the cloak, and watch while he waded in (Improved Evasion) and blitzed the lizard!

I still think I should have been able to Tumble!

Boddynock

 

[hero4hire]

I see nothing wrong with aerial acrobatics or aerobatics if you will. Seems like common sense that the skill could be applied to aerial maneuvers.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I would allow Tumbling in the air, provided the flying creature has a maneuverability of Good or Perfect. Good maneuverability is the equivalent of a hummingbird's air control, which is plenty good-enough for the zigs and zags of airborn tumbling. And anything better than that, sure.

Anything less, though, lacks the control to make the sudden changes in direction and what-have-you that are part and parcel of Tumbling.

 

[DreamChaser]

i would allow it and determine the aerial tumbling penalty based upon the creatures maneuverability.

Perfect --> Normal DC
Good --> +5 to DCs
Average --> +10 to DCs
Poor --> +15 to DCs
Clumsy --> +20 to DCs

Thus, only a really good flyer is ever going to take the time to tumble but if a creature wanted to try to learn, they could...they would just suck at it.

DC

 

[ARandomGod]

i would allow it and determine the aerial tumbling penalty based upon the creatures maneuverability.

Perfect --> Normal DC
Good --> +5 to DCs
Average --> +10 to DCs
Poor --> +15 to DCs
Clumsy --> +20 to DCs

Thus, only a really good flyer is ever going to take the time to tumble but if a creature wanted to try to learn, they could...they would just suck at it.

DC

They already get A penalty... move at half speed.

I wouldn't increase the DC of tumbling for anything worse than poor. Sure, poor or clumsy will move with less than "normal" dexterity, and therefore will tumble less well. But applying a penalty to average... Well, humans by definition do not walk better than average, so I'd have to argue that the same penalty should apply to all forms of tumbling. And under what you're suggesting that's a +10 to the DC's of every thing that walks... at least, anything without a descriptor of better than average. And I don't know of anything that's even given a descriptor for landspeed, so by default they're ALL average.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

And I don't know of anything that's even given a descriptor for landspeed, so by default they're ALL average.

What you are failing to take into consideration is that "average" means something different with regards to flight maneuverability, and land maneuverability. Note that a creature with Flight 30ft. (Average) cannot move backward, must continue forward at at least 1/2 speed or fall, cannot remain in place, and can only turn a maximum of 90 degrees for any 5' of movement.

This hardly describes the "average" walker. Rather, I would equate a landbased creature's maneuverability on land to Good or even Perfect maneuverability in the air. This is exactly why I'd allow Tumbling at these levels (they have enough control over their movement to execute aerial tumbling,) but simply deny it at anything less. I suppose a penalty might be more appropriate, though, allowing someone extremely skilled at tumbling to overcome even a poor or clumsy flight rating.

 

[Brett]

Hmm... it looks like you'd have to have a bonus/penalty depending on the difference between you're flying rating and that of your opponent. Everyone on the ground is assumed to have the same man. rating, while there are definite classes from flying. Maybe for every difference in rating there is a = or - 2 to your check? Or should it be more?