Can monks use flurry with grappling?

[Gobbo]

I have a player who has been using his flurry of blows with grapple attempts. Is this legal? If so, does he draw AoO from adjacent enemies when he moves into the space that he is grappling with?

This player also wants to be able to critically hit with a natural 20 when he rolls for his touch attack for his grapple as well as use power attack (when he gets it) for grapple damage.

I havent seen anything in the rules contrary to all of the above. So far I have allowed him to flurry with the grapple but no critical hits.

 

[Caliban]

I have a player who has been using his flurry of blows with grapple attempts. Is this legal? If so, does he draw AoO from adjacent enemies when he moves into the space that he is grappling with?

Technically, no. Grapple checks are not attack rolls. (They are an opposed check, not an attack roll.)

Many DM's house rule that monk can flurry while grappling and apply any flurry penalties to his grapple attempts.

This player also wants to be able to critically hit with a natural 20 when he rolls for his touch attack for his grapple as well as use power attack (when he gets it) for grapple damage.

The initial touch attack for a grapple doesn't do any damage, so a critical would be irrelevent (except in the rare case of needing a natural 20 to hit their touch AC).

Grapple checks are not attack rolls, so the power attack penalty would not apply. (They are "like" and attack roll in that they use your BAB, but are opposed checks and use different modifiers for size. Since they aren't attack rolls, you can't critical on them.)

Grapple damage is not actually unarmed attack damage, it just does damage "as if" with an unarmed attack. Thus the power attack damage bonus doesn't apply to it either. (Note that weapon specialization makes this distinction: You can specialize with grapples or with unarmed attacks.)

 

[Darklone]

Flurry may be used perhaps since the monk has this silly different Flurry BAB table...

 

[youspoonybard]

But sometimes you can hurt your opponent without rolling grapple checks.

Like the "Attack your Opponent" option, where you attack with a light weapon at a -4 penalty.

No grapple checks are rolled there.

 

[Caliban]

But sometimes you can hurt your opponent without rolling grapple checks.

Like the "Attack your Opponent" option, where you attack with a light weapon at a -4 penalty.

No grapple checks are rolled there.

Yes, but that's done in place of one of your grapple checks. You could use power attack on that, at a hefty penalty (-4 in addition to the power attack penalty), but I don't think you could flurry.

 

[Gobbo]

Thanks for all your input. What about AoO from adjacent enemies when the monk moves to another square because he's grappling. Do enemies get the AoO or maybe not since he's taking a 5' step?

So far I've been fairly easy about the whole thing but I am starting to have second thoughts. Grappling is rather powerful since he has a good strength and a feat that allows him a bonus of +4 "as if he were size Large".

Thanks again.

 

[Shadowdweller]

Grappling checks made offensively on one's turn ARE literally iterative attacks. Grappling, unlike certain other combat options such as Whirlwind attack, takes an Attack/Full Attack action. Therefore, flurry of blows should apply.

As for the second part- the monk shouldn't provoke attacks of opportunity for the movement provided that net movement in the turn does not exceed 5 feet.

 

[Caliban]

Grappling checks made offensively on one's turn ARE literally iterative attacks. Grappling, unlike certain other combat options such as Whirlwind attack, takes an Attack/Full Attack action. Therefore, flurry of blows should apply.

As for the second part- the monk shouldn't provoke attacks of opportunity for the movement provided that net movement in the turn does not exceed 5 feet.

Hmm... Looking over the grapple rules more closely, it does state that all your grapple checks are in place of a normal melee attack, so I guess you could flurry. You could even use the extra attack from the flurry as another grapple check, and not suffer the flurry penalties. Pretty cheesy.

 

[Gobbo]

What if the monk uses his flurry for two grapple attempts, with the first attempt he successfully grapples and kills his opponent. He is now in his dead opponent's square. He still has one more attack because he flurried, so he successfully grapples with an adjacent enemy and moves again 5 feet into his opponent's square. Is this all legal? Are any AoO allowed to adjacent enemies (other than the two enemies he grappled with) ?

It seems like he's getting some 'free' movement out of the deal here. I realize that flurrying is a full round action.

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[MarauderX]

What if the monk uses his flurry for two grapple attempts, with the first attempt he successfully grapples and kills his opponent. He is now in his dead opponent's square. He still has one more attack because he flurried, so he successfully grapples with an adjacent enemy and moves again 5 feet into his opponent's square. Is this all legal? Are any AoO allowed to adjacent enemies (other than the two enemies he grappled with) ?

It seems like he's getting some 'free' movement out of the deal here. I realize that flurrying is a full round action.

Thanks again for all your help.

Don't have the SRD in front of me, but not IMC. I wouldn't allow him to make any other moves in the round than to grapple. I would allow him multiple attempts to grapple (as many as he has attacks, similar to trip) but I would make him pin his opponent first before getting to thrash on him.