D&D 5E Can my table focus on making things fun instead of optimizing?

[jodyjohnson]

There is definitely tension between a uniform game and creativity - people weaned on digital games and TCG are hardwired to seek out advantages and optimization. Tabletop RPGs ask you to direct that energy into being interesting and entertaining. Sometimes being entertained involves being scared of a threat, screwing up, or failing.

http://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/2l69tp/ama_mike_mearls_codesigner_of_dd_5_head_of_dd_rd/cls8996

I feel like this hits my main complaint as a DM. I don't mind optimization at the table and expect it, however it can suck what makes the games entertaining for me out of the game.

Usually it leads my players to want to speed through the levels because they want that next optimization point over just having fun playing the game - including failing and having things go sideways.

I think you can roleplay and roll play but I may need to make a motivational poster that says, "Be interesting and entertaining" on the wall.

This quote also relates.

2.
The big disadvantages of AEDU, based on feedback we saw in the playtest, come in two areas.


First, we saw that many players don't want much complexity in combat. They're happy to just attack. AEDU forced everyone to the same level of complexity.

Second, making it easy to get back encounter powers made each battle feel too similar. People could easily fall into a script they repeated fight after fight. It was not a result I expected, but pushing the short rest to one hour makes an encounter ability feel more precious. Using it is seen as a real risk now, rather than an automatic choice.

4e is a favorite system, but Mike's comment matches what I saw at the table - players asked for options and then did the exact same options every single encounter. The script repeated fight after fight. I found it very unentertaining as a DM. PF and 3.5 went very much the same way.

Find a good effective combo and repeat ad nauseum.

 

[Paraxis]

"Can my table focus on making things fun instead of optimizing?"

Sure they can, but have you thought about the fact that optimizing can be very fun and interesting to those who enjoy it?

Some people enjoy the game outside the game, they enjoy the challenge of building a better character, they enjoy getting to the next optimization point. The key is to not telling them they are having bad wrong fun, but to get them to also have fun being creative and engaging with the world during play.

 

[Boarstorm]

I feel like this thread has the potential to generate some really useful and thoughtful conversation if we let it.

It boils down to getting the players to engage with the setting instead of the game, if that differentiation makes any sense. It's always been a challenge for me personally.

Why can't my players ever bother remembering an NPC's name instead of tacking on some stupid (and usually vulgar) nickname?

*cough*

Sorry. It's a source of some frustration.

 

[LostSoul]

I don't mind optimization at the table and expect it, however it can suck what makes the games entertaining for me out of the game.

What makes the game entertaining for you?

 

[KarinsDad]

Why can't my players ever bother remembering an NPC's name instead of tacking on some stupid (and usually vulgar) nickname?

*cough*

Sorry. It's a source of some frustration.

Because we play the game at most once per week for most people. There are 4 to 6 hours at the table and 162 to 164 hours between sessions (assuming that a given group even plays once per week, our current group games twice per month). So for most players, at most 2% or 3% of their time is spent playing D&D.

And as I get older, it's even hard to remember an NPC's name 10 minutes after it is stated. And of course, no self respecting DM would name his important NPCs Bob, or Frank, or Tom, he has to name them fricking Alizar or even Ouzdavu (wth???).

 

[Astrosicebear]

An interesting experiment would be to hand out a very powerful weapon or item that is clearly ordained for one of the characters, but may take his optimized, level planned character for a u-turn. Its a great moral dilemma. He shouldn't feel weaker using the new item or weapon, but different... see which he chooses.

 

[Astrosicebear]

And as I get older, it's even hard to remember an NPC's name 10 minutes after it is stated. And of course, no self respecting DM would name his important NPCs Bob, or Frank, or Tom, he has to name them fricking Alizar or even Ouzdavu (wth???).

As a DM its easy to remember your own villains, or those in the adevnture book. You read it at least 5 times a page. But the PCs may never know it, or get told once in passing. To create a memorable villain, its important to utilize lots of repetition in names.

 

[MonkeezOnFire]

People often have different expectations about the game they are playing and they often think the others at the table hold the same expectations that they do. I sincerely believe that many problems at the table arise from this situation and can be solved by taking the time to discuss game expectations. The same page tool is great for this. It's usually possible to reach a compromise so that everyone gets what they want out of the game. After all rpgs deliver a variety of experiences and their flexibility is one of their great strengths.

 

[Boarstorm]

As a DM its easy to remember your own villains, or those in the adevnture book. You read it at least 5 times a page. But the PCs may never know it, or get told once in passing. To create a memorable villain, its important to utilize lots of repetition in names.

Villains, hell. I'd be happy if they would remember their hireling's name.

"We'll tell what's-his-name--"
"Chadwick."
"Yeah, we'll tell Cheese D<redacted> to ..."

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

As a DM its easy to remember your own villains, or those in the adevnture book. You read it at least 5 times a page. But the PCs may never know it, or get told once in passing. To create a memorable villain, its important to utilize lots of repetition in names.

Flaw: this NPC is obsessed with being remembered, and every time he meets someone new he will spell out his name to them and force them to address him by it every time they speak. If someone forgets or mispronounces his name, he will fly into a violent frenzy.