Can PC's calculate with AoO's?

[The_lone_gunman]

I tend to agree with Grendal on this subject. I think a little bit of metagaming (which includes a bit of tactical discusion between the players during the battle) makes sense. What it represents is the fact that the Characters (not the players) have been fighting together and working together for some time. It also represents the extraordinary abilities that PC's have: 18 int is pretty damn smart, I think this would allow that wizard enough of an understanding of spacial dynamics to be able to place that 20 foot fireball right on. In extrodinary circumstances (IE: on the back of a pegasus flying through a hail of dragon fire for instance), I would make him make a spellcraft check to get it perfect. That fighter, who has been in constant combat most of his life, really knows when an opening comes up and he can squeeze by without an AOO. Things like this make sense.

The things I hate is when you throw a monster in front of them, and the monster manual reader is like : OH thats a Lamia! She will drain your wisdom if she touches you and then charm you with her special abilities! I think she has around 50 hp and +9 BAB.....)


I guess when it comes to the game mechanics I think it is ok to metagame a little, you as the DM have the hard job of keeping it from getting out of hand.


TLG

 

[Altalazar]

Since everything is simultaneous and yet not, you can think of it along these lines - Tordek runs past the Ogre, provoking an attack of opportunity. Lidda says 'hey, he only gets one AoO, so I can run past and be ok'

That's the metagame version. Here's the in-game version:

Lidda sees Tordek running past the Ogre. The Ogre growls and bares hits nasty yellow teeth, taking a mighty swing of his axe against Tordek. As the Ogre is distracted, swinging at Tordek, Lidda sees her chance to run past the Ogre, dashing to safety on the other side of the room.

See, no meta-gaming required. Lidda sees the Ogre is already busy attacking Tordek as he runs by, so she takes the opportunity to get by herself unscathed.

 

[KarinsDad]

Since everything is simultaneous and yet not, you can think of it along these lines - Tordek runs past the Ogre, provoking an attack of opportunity. Lidda says 'hey, he only gets one AoO, so I can run past and be ok'

That's the metagame version. Here's the in-game version:

Lidda sees Tordek running past the Ogre. The Ogre growls and bares hits nasty yellow teeth, taking a mighty swing of his axe against Tordek. As the Ogre is distracted, swinging at Tordek, Lidda sees her chance to run past the Ogre, dashing to safety on the other side of the room.

See, no meta-gaming required. Lidda sees the Ogre is already busy attacking Tordek as he runs by, so she takes the opportunity to get by herself unscathed.

Until the Ogre has Combat Reflexes when he smacks Lidda upside her head.

Then, the simultaneous explanation falls apart and some other stretch of a "character perception" type of explanation must be made.

"He spins around faster than a speeding bullet and still smacks you and you suddenly realize that you can never run past him simultaneously." Err, what?

 

[Artoomis]

Until the Ogre has Combat Reflexes when he smacks Lidda upside her head.

Then, the simultaneous explanation falls apart and some other stretch of a "character perception" type of explanation must be made.

"He spins around faster than a speeding bullet and still smacks you and you suddenly realize that you can never run past him simultaneously." Err, what?

More like:

"Whoops - he one of those unusaully wuick Ogres - he whirls around faster than you ever expected and nails you upside your head."

I have no problem with that.

 

[Altalazar]

Yes, precisely - Lidda runs past the Ogre, thinking she had an opening, but then faster than she thought an Ogre could move, the axe continues its swing around and strikes Lidda across her back, ripping open her flesh in a spray of blood. It sounds like something you'd read in a fantasy novel. Again, it fits - Lidda thought she could get through while the Ogre was distracted, but found out the hard way she could not. Now she knows not to underestimate this Ogre and not to try and run past it like that, busy or not.

 

[Blood Jester]

Why not let them count hexes?

I hate to upset the 'no-counting' types, but...

Some people are just better at judging distances than others. Master archers (or riflemen, etc.) in real life can judge things like cross-winds with amazing accuracy, and if they could not visually estimate distances with a great degree of accuracy, they would never hit anything that was not on a set target range, as they would not be able to adjust their shot for gravity (arrows do not travel in straight lines).

I would not claim to be on their level, and yet, when I played Volleyball for years, I often impressed my teammates (and upset my opponents) by running backwards/sideways with my eyes in looking up at the ball, only to stop suddenly and let the ball fall at my feet because I instinctively knew I had just passed the court line. (This was often done within inches.)

So, unless you allow the players the chance to act out the scene at full scale, why should not a player count hexes to represent his expert archers knack for realizing he needs to step up slightly to place his shot just so?

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

A typical ogre has a dexterity of 8.

So yeah, if it gets a second AoO, It would be a very nasty surprise! But these things happen.

In all fairness the DM probably should have mentionned that this particular ogre was significantly nimbler than most of his kind.

Sure, it's metagaming to assume the ogre won't have more than 1 AoO. But it's all right.

Let's assume I am a player, a fighter, and I attack some NPC. I roll a 17 and the DM tells me I miss. I decide right here and there that I'm outclassed and decide to do my best to retreat. Metagaming? I just used the rule to evaluate my odds of survival, that's all.

Players do this all the time as they are getting feedback from the battle.

 

[Altalazar]

It can depend greatly on your style of play too. When my game gets into the thick of combat, alot of times there will just be a lot of rolling as players try to do all sorts of different things, and we only even bother to look up minor details like modifiers if it looks like it is a close call.

As for range, I give approximate, and that is good enough. At most, you'll be off by 2 for a modifier, and if a player finds that out with a missed shot, then they'll figure it out and move closer (or roll better!)