Can Prone Ally be shifted?

[catsclaw227]

If I have a power that can shift an ally a number of squares, does this work for a prone ally?

i.e. I can shift him out of range of an adjacent enemy.

 

[Surgoshan]

I recall reading somewhere that you can in fact move a prone ally. However, the book doesn't really say anything about it. However, if you draw from the fact that when you're prone, you crawl as movement at up to half your move speed, then it would imply that you can shift a prone ally half the distance you can shift a standing ally. At the very least, it's a house rule. At worst, it'll have to go to customer service.

 

[Zsig]

I guess it would depend on how many squares the power in question allows you to shift.

If it's 1 square, then the answer is probably No. You can't shift.

If it's more than one, then the answer is ... maybe.

As per the Crawling rules on page 288, crawling effectively means "moving while prone", which I think it's what you're looking for.

It states that you move half your regular speed while prone/crawling.

Similarly (and this where the doubt comes) when you move into difficult terrain each space costs you two "movement points". This means that you can only shift in difficult terrain if you're allowed more than one square of Shift, and by doing it you're spending both of those to move only 1.

If the rules works the same way? I have no idea, probably not, but they are still a bit similar.

[PS: I can't see what i'm typing, so excuse me for any typos...]

 

[Maximillian]

It's kind of funny, actually. There's nothing I can find right now that says you can't move when prone.

1. The conditions on page 277 mention penalties to attacks, combat advantage vs melee, bonus to defenses vs ranged. It says you're "lying on the ground," but never explicitly says you can't move.
2. The crawl entry on page 288 says "you must be prone to crawl," not "if you are prone you must crawl."

I realize this is stupid. Of course you can't walk when you're lying on the ground, but how difficult would it be to say "you have to crawl when prone," or "you can't take a normal move or shift when prone."

From a basic reading, the shift entry on page 292 says you "move one square." Crawl says you move "up to half your movement," so on the one hand, I think you can still shift one square, as long as your speed is at least 2.

On the other hand, you're Crawling and not Shifting. They're different actions, and thus mutually exclusive, so maybe you can't. I'm more partial to this argument, but I can see it either way.

Because prone never says you can't shift, it's left unspecified, IMO. I'm going to rule that all movement has to be crawling.

 

[Maximillian]

It states that you move half your regular speed while prone/crawling.

Note that it's "up to half your speed," not "at half speed," so it's not that each square costs two squares of movement, it's just that you can only move, say, 3 squares if your speed is 6.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If I have a power that can shift an ally a number of squares, does this work for a prone ally?

i.e. I can shift him out of range of an adjacent enemy.

Does the power say "Slide an ally" or "One ally may shift"?

If he may shift, then he's limited by the rules on prone movement.

If you can slide him, then the fact that he's prone is irrelevant.

To make matters more complicated, I don't think there are rules on prone movement, but I've seen a suggestion from WotC - can't recall if it was FAQ or CustServ - that you enforce crawling as the only permissible form of movement while prone.

-Hyp.

 

[keterys]

Note that it's "up to half your speed," not "at half speed," so it's not that each square costs two squares of movement, it's just that you can only move, say, 3 squares if your speed is 6.

Which is a semantic that makes no difference while crawling except for while slowed. So... who knows what they want here. The shift at half movement house rule is pretty good, though. Better than a rule that you can shift freely while prone -or- a rule that you can't shift at all, at least.

Just so it's clear, by the RAW you can _run_ while prone. Clearly, the rules for prone need another line or two.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Of course you can. The rules do not restrict prone, so in the spirit of 4E, say yes not no!
Also if you can be push/pull/slide while immobilised I reckon you can dio it while prone

 

[muffin_of_chaos]

Which is a semantic that makes no difference while crawling except for while slowed. So... who knows what they want here. The shift at half movement house rule is pretty good, though. Better than a rule that you can shift freely while prone -or- a rule that you can't shift at all, at least.
Just so it's clear, by the RAW you can _run_ while prone. Clearly, the rules for prone need another line or two.

Why is this semantic? Seems like a pretty good indicator of what can actually happen...it doesn't cost double movement to move one square, but your total movement merely is reduced by half, so shifting one square isn't a problem because it's still only shifting one square.

 

[catsclaw227]

Does the power say "Slide an ally" or "One ally may shift"?

If he may shift, then he's limited by the rules on prone movement.

If you can slide him, then the fact that he's prone is irrelevant.

Let's say I used a Warlord's Steel Monsoon. Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and one ally within 5 squares of you can shift 1 square.

But I also have Surround Foe. Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage. Effect: You slide one willing ally who is adjacent to the target to any other square adjacent to the target. The ally can move through the target’s square.

These are written differently, but is the spirit of the rule that they are the same, and any small semantic difference between the two is not relevant?

Or is the semantic difference significant and the wording here is critical?