Can sexism be good for plot?

[DonaQuixote]

How do you treat the issue of gender in your worlds?

Do you include elements of gender roles, sexism, etc.?
Do you opt for largely ignoring sexism for the sake of your female players?
Do you not worry about the issue, but still have a world that conforms to traditional gender roles (barmaids are chicks, barkeeps are men; noble lords fight and hunt, ladies do needlework; kings are always male, that type of thing)?

I'm interested in how and why we treat gender the way we do in roleplaying, and how often it is a conscious or unconscious thing.

I'll admit my bias -- I tend to be bugged by a world either with de-facto gender equality and no explanation (since such a world would be truly remarkable) or de-facto sexism and no explanation (since gender differences are usually explained by some type of ideology). The worlds I build usually have clearly articulated sexist elements. This is a part of the world to be accounted for and (hopefully) overcome by my heroes. Meaning, chicks can be fighters, but that will make for an interesting backstory, depending on their class status. On the other hand, my favorite DM (other than me )likes to make worlds with only very very mild sexist elements and not have it be a part of the plot much at all. I wonder if he's not comfortable with having that be in his game because he's male and some of his players female.

Intersted in hearing other folks' opinions about the issue.
(And for the record I'm a Doña, not a Don)

-Doña Q.

 

[Flyspeck23]

How do you treat the issue of gender in your worlds?

Well, most species IMC have male and female specimen

Do you include elements of gender roles, sexism, etc.?

Barely, and if I do, it's for plot reasons.

Do you opt for largely ignoring sexism for the sake of your female players?

Yes. If it's not a plot reason, I don't include it. If I don't tell my players any different, all genders are treated equally.

Do you not worry about the issue, but still have a world that conforms to traditional gender roles (barmaids are chicks, barkeeps are men; noble lords fight and hunt, ladies do needlework; kings are always male, that type of thing)?

Definetly not. My female players would hate to game in such a world, as they regard RPGs as a sort of escapism. Why cope with the same crap that exists in the real world - unless, of course, you can do something about it (so it's back to plot reasons).

I'm interested in how and why we treat gender the way we do in roleplaying, and how often it is a conscious or unconscious thing.

I'll admit my bias -- I tend to be bugged by a world either with de-facto gender equality and no explanation (since such a world would be truly remarkable) or de-facto sexism and no explanation (since gender differences are usually explained by some type of ideology). The worlds I build usually have clearly articulated sexist elements. This is a part of the world to be accounted for and (hopefully) overcome by my heroes. Meaning, chicks can be fighters, but that will make for an interesting backstory, depending on their class status. On the other hand, my favorite DM (other than me )likes to make worlds with only very very mild sexist elements and not have it be a part of the plot much at all. I wonder if he's not comfortable with having that be in his game because he's male and some of his players female.

Well, for me it's not only a matter of wether I'm comfortable with it - it's the female gamers who'd be uncomfortable if they'd need to cope with the same sexism as IRL.
Anyone can play whatever he or she likes. If they'd like to build some sexism into their backstory (a male drow cleric for instance, to twist the usual "females are inferior" a bit), I'm all for it.

 

[Planesdragon]

Seperate but Equal

(Let's get this out of the way first: PCs IMC can be whatever they want to be. If a player wants to be a gay househusband following his love off to war, and he can pull it off, have at.)

In my work there are clear gender roles and ideas within each nation. Some of them don't have a distinct role. Others have very set gender roles--and still others have set roles that can and are bent or broken. A few cultures do pretend that there is no nonsexual difference between men and women--but they're either inhuman, or clearly shown as wrong.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that having gender roles immedately means sexism. If a warrior culture has mens carrying swords (but knowing how to block) and women carrying shields (with sharp edges on the side), it's not sexist at all.

 

[Kemrain]

Well, through terrible plot twists, some failed will saves, and some really foolish decisions, both of the PC's in the game I'm playing in have spent time both as males and females, and they certanly do get treated differently. That said, the world we play in is rather evolved- though the tech level is Middle Ages, early Rennisance at best, the society is more a feudal reflection of the American 1800's.
Men and women fill very different rolls, but women can own property, men can raise children, there are male prostitutes (though only in VERY urban areas) and women can hold positions of political power. However, Men and Women are not created equal as women don't go off to war, are often less educated (That isn't true in some cities) and are often descriminated against in the legal systems (one city has laws on the books that give women a curfew of nightfall and state that they can earn no more than 80% of a job's wages.)
Given all that, we still see women in the clergy (even if it's not encouraged), women running businesses (though more often clotheirs and grocers than arms dealers and such), and women posessing most of the rights given t men in each barony.
Society expects women to behave a certain way and though it does not encourage them to break from it's molds, it does not sternly punnish them, either. There is sexism, as there is racism, but it only plays as much of a roll in our game as the players allow (how much time we spend in uneducated lands)

There are roumors of lands to the south where women are treated almost as property... Those are some crazy savages.

- Kemrain the Dis-Sexist

 

[Henry]

Keep one thing in mind - the difference in male/female strength and constitution (whether perceived or real) in our real world does not hold true in 3rd edition; Males and Females statistically are equally strong and hardy in a 3rd edition default world, so the "weaker sex" connotation is lost there. Not to say there might not be other differences, but if there is no perceived physical difference, there is little grounds for sexism out of the gate.

In my campaigns, some chivalric "fairer sex" notions exist, but the majority of women are free to lead a more active adventuring life if they choose, with no stigma. Such role models as strong female fighters, crafty female wizards, or sly and famous female rogues build on the conception that women can lead "wild" lifestyles with no social backlash. Different nations might expect them to "settle down" after a time, but the end result is up to the player.

 

[dren]

Sexism, racism, agism, and prejudice is all good - game wise. It's one of the ways for heroes to be heroes, fighting those silly superstitions in whatever way possible. As long as you don't take it too far...nothing is out of place as long as you have a mature group of gamers.

Every type of stereotype and archetype will be in my games: barmaids are chicks, noble lords fight and hunt...the reason for this, is when they see the anamoly, it will really stand out. An instant NPC of note if you will.

 

[Pielorinho]

First, my first official act as a mod on these boards is gonna disappoint Piratecat: instead of dispensing brutal justice at the end of a bec-de-corbin*, I'm gonna thank folks so far for handling this topic civilly. And I'll thank everyone to keep it that way: no detours into verboten territory, please.

That said, I take it case by case. Above all I want to make sure that my players are comfortable with any element of sexism I add to the game; if there's something that I think might bother someone, I check with them first.

A player wanted to play a young girl rebelling against her family, for example, so I suggested playing a noble's daughter in a highly patriarchal family. She liked the idea and ended up playing the first parent PC I've seen: a fifteen-year-old girl married to an older businessman and with an infant. The gender relations in her noble's family entered into the plot a couple of times in fun ways.

As a general rule, though, I think that the tremendous power than an individual can have in a standard D&D setting (and by personal power, I'm talking about the ability to throw firestorms, call down miracles from the heavens, and/or hack through a room full of hundreds of standard warriors without sustaining a scratch) tends to obviate many gender discrepancies. While certain roles may be expected for religious or cultural reasons, nearly everyone in the fantasy world will be aware that a man or woman can break out of the expectations to achieve something great or sinister.

Daniel

* I woulda used the bec-de-corbin, but all I have is a glaive guisarme, and really, why bother?

 

[Thanee]

Amazons are sexists extraordinaire and they are women, so sexism is not all about men being on top.

In general, in our games, genders are treated equal. There are kings and there are queens, there are matriarchs and patriarchs, female hunters and nobles and fighters and barbarians and priests and so on.

Some stereotypics (like the barmaid) do remain, but that's not a source of complain.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Count Arioch the 28t]

I have sexism in my world. Bot every races is overtly sexist, although certain individuals of a race not otherwise known for sexism might be.

Hobgoblins, in general, are brutally sexist. They don't even name their females, in fact. If you kill your wife in a rage, it's assumed she had it coming. (As a contrast, hobgoblins are gentle, almost tender with their horses, horses are prized in their culture, and they are accomplished horsemen.)

Orcs tend to be a bit sexist, but only when unopposed, for a while, a female orc claimed to be empress of the orcish people by way of physical might, although she was assassinated by agents of Shargass a few years later.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Apparantly someone decided that sexism can be good for plot: Just look at all the female-only PrCs (particularly in Forgotten Realms) compared to the small number of male-only PrCs.