Can vampires go swimming in lakes and oceans unharmed?

[Arravis]

My question is simply this: Can vampires cross and be unharmed by immersion in lakes and oceans? I'm not referring to vampires from literature, but vampires simply as written by the RAW for D&D.

Under the vampire it states the following:
"Vampires are also unable to cross running water, although they can be carried over it while resting in their coffins or aboard a ship."
"Similarly, immersing a vampire in running water robs it of one-third of its hit points each round until it is destroyed at the end of the third round of immersion."

In the Aquatic Terrain section of the SRD it states the following:
"Accordingly, these rules simply divide aquatic terrain into two categories: flowing water (such as streams and rivers) and nonflowing water (such as lakes and oceans)."

So does flowing water=running water or are they two different definitions that sometimes overlap? Thanks guys!

-Arravis

 

[Folly]

I see no reason that a vampire would have issue with bodies of water that are not defined as running water.

 

[Cyberia]

I think it's perfectly logical to interpret both phrases as meaning the same thing.

 

[Jhaelen]

Considering that AD&D 1e & 2e had a paragraph about aquatic vampires, I don't think it's far-fetched to assume that 3E vampires can dwell in lakes and oceans.

 

[frankthedm]

Depends on the size of the lake I say. If a lake is big enough to have significant waves as a regular feature {Like Chicago's lake Michigan], then i will call it running water

 

[Arravis]

Depends on the size of the lake I say. If a lake is big enough to have significant waves as a regular feature {Like Chicago's lake Michigan], then i will call it running water

The problem with that logic is that oceans are constantly moving with substantial and incredibly powerful waves and currents... and by the rules they are clearly defined as "non-flowing". Having been born on an island and grown up along the ocean, I'll vouch for its dynamic nature. But yet, the rules still define it as "non-flowing", so I don't see how a lake, regardless of how powerful the currents, could be defined otherwise since the rules make that statement so clearly.

 

[Shin Okada]

As the rule does not define what kind of watery terrains are "running water" clearly, it is up to DM.

I say, most natural lakes and oceans are "running". Most lakes have some source of water (rivers running into them, spring water, etc.) and where their waters go (rivers running out from them, etc.)

And ocean of course has currents and streams.

And, some says vampires cannot cross running water as they were originally a metaphor of pest or the original folklore is based on the memory of pest which European people suffered several times. It often happed in the Europe that the pest stops at one side of the river and such. So, from that concept, I say big lakes and (of course) ocean works.

 

[Arravis]

As the rule does not define what kind of watery terrains are "running water" clearly, it is up to DM.

Actually, what I am arguing is essentially that the rules DO define what "running water" is, it is "flowing water", and flowing water has a clear and specific definition within the rules.

 

[Shin Okada]

Actually, what I am arguing is essentially that the rules DO define what "running water" is, it is "flowing water", and flowing water has a clear and specific definition within the rules.

But the word "running water" is only used in the description of the vampire entry and the word "flowing water" is only used in the Terrain section.

Whether if running water = flowing water is not defined.

 

[Folly]

Shin is correct that it is up to the DM. The DM should realize that it has become a DM decision and that the consequences have to be dealt with as well. If you rule that lakes count against vampires one could logically extend it to any body of water. This would be done by stating A lake is a nonflowing body of water. A pond is a nonflowing body of water. Thus if A=C and B=C then A=B.

What I am saying is that when a DM makes a decision on this, (s)he is not making a clarification but revising the rule and should take into account the affect of it so as to not cause silly situations as stated above.