D&D 5E Can you cast flame blade and then make an improvised weapon attack with the flame blade?

[James Gasik]

I think it's less about grammar and more about people trying really hard to make the spell say something that it doesn't. The spell clearly states that it uses your Action to make an attack. If it meant that you could use it with extra attack, it would state Attack Action somewhere in the spell.

I'm not even against it being used with extra attack, but people are really reaching to say that's how it works anyway when they can instead just say that they've changed it to work with the attack action.

It's just one of those obtuse ways the rules are written. Not long ago I had a discussion with someone playing a Monk for the first time about the difference between a "melee attack" and "an attack with a melee weapon" being two very different things and I could see TILT in their eyes as they looked at me like I was insane.

 

[Hriston]

First of all, it doesn't say it's the Attack action, so why should I assume it is?

Because you make a melee or ranged attack with it?

Second, that's the exact same language used in every spell. The project image spell say you can "use your action" to move the illusion, which is not an attack.

Right, so that wouldn't be the Attack action because moving an illusion etc. is not making a melee or ranged attack.

Finally, it's not exactly what you can do with the Attack action. You are making a melee spell attack, and those are pretty much always done with the Cast a Spell action. I'm not sure I've ever seen a spell attack done with the Attack action.

Okay? That's not exactly strong evidence. ETA: Also, the action that enables the attack in this case is clearly not the Cast a Spell action because the spell has already been cast as a bonus action.

 

[Incenjucar]

As an improvised weapon, if it's unlike an existing weapon, it does d4 damage. If it's like a scimitar, then it does d6 damage, because that is scimitar's damage.

I'm not sure what using it like this accomplishes.

Eh? Using a scimitar as an improvised weapon would be d4. That's basically a pomel strike or the like.

 

[Hriston]

The wording is like other spells that offer an attack (and other spells that don't) both of which clearly do not use the attack action.

I'd be happy to discuss the other spells, but I'm not going to search back in the thread to find the ones that have been talked about already.

 

[Hriston]

It does not work with extra attack. Sorry, your logic is faulty. If A =>B and C =>B, you can´t conclude that A <=> C. B is the melee attack in question. A is attack action. C is the action granted by fire blade.

You're assuming two separate categories of action. That's begging the question. The spell doesn't specify whether the action is Attack or Non-attack, just that the caster uses their action. To test whether the Attack action is appropriate, we can ask, is the character making a ranged or melee attack with it? If so, then it begins to look a lot like the Attack action.

 

[Hriston]

Eh? Using a scimitar as an improvised weapon would be d4. That's basically a pomel strike or the like.

They're talking about using something that's not a scimitar (i.e. the fiery blade) as a scimitar.

 

[ichabod]

Okay? That's not exactly strong evidence.

It's as strong or stronger than any evidence you've given. I would add that Crawford has said that spells only do what they say they do, and nothing else. It doesn't say you get the Attack action, so you don't get one.

Edit: took out stuff that made it personal.

 

[Hriston]

It's as strong or stronger than any evidence you've given. Why are you so worried about this?

I'm not worried, and I'd appreciate you not making this personal.

 

[Incenjucar]

They're talking about using something that's not a scimitar (i.e. the fiery blade) as a scimitar.

Which would still be an improvised weapon dealing 1d4 damage because the game doesn't have rules for deciding an object is a specific weapon.

Might be a fun feat or something.

 

[ichabod]

I'm not worried, and I'd appreciate you not making this personal.

My apologies. I misread the vibe.