Can you flank with ranged weapons?

[Shaele]

In last night's session, our only fighter was engaging a stone giant in melee combat. The party rogue ran around behind, and attempted to flank from 25' away with his bow.

Although the flanking rules seem to indicate that you only gain the +2 hit bonus with melee weapons, there was some confusion as to whether a rogue with a bow was an effective flanking partner.

A couple of questions:
1. Can you flank with a bow? Should the rogue have provided the fighter with a +2 hit bonus?
2. If so, would the rogue also get a hit bonus?
3. Finally, in thie midst of any of this, is it possible for the rogue to gain his sneak attack damage?

Side question: if the answer to all of these questions is "no", is there any way for the rogue to gain sneak attack damage with his bow in this type of situation?

Thanks!
(Confused) Shaele

 

[Tom Cashel]

A couple of questions:
1. Can you flank with a bow? Should the rogue have provided the fighter with a +2 hit bonus?
2. If so, would the rogue also get a hit bonus?
3. Finally, in thie midst of any of this, is it possible for the rogue to gain his sneak attack damage?

No to all of these.

from the SRD
Flanking

If a combatant is making a melee attack against an opponent, and an ally directly opposite the combatant is threatening the opponent, the combatant and the combatant's ally flank the opponent. A combatant gains a +2 flanking bonus on the attack roll. A rogue in this position can also sneak attack the target. The ally must be on the other side of the opponent, so that the opponent is directly between the combatant and the ally.

Threatened Area

A combatant threatens the area into which it can make a melee attack, even when it is not a combatant's action.

Since you can only Threaten with a melee weapon, you cannot Flank without one.

Side question: if the answer to all of these questions is "no", is there any way for the rogue to gain sneak attack damage with his bow in this type of situation?

No.

 

[mikebr99]

The Pearless Archer PrC (Silvermarches) can threaten with a missile weapon... but only up to 10ft. away I think.

 

[hong]

The Pearless Archer

 

[Henrix]

I've heard about how Wilhelm Tell shot an apple from his son's head with a crossbow. Is the Pearless Archer something similar? Disgruntled freedom fighter taking it out on fruit?

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Side question: if the answer to all of these questions is "no", is there any way for the rogue to gain sneak attack damage with his bow in this type of situation?

Depends on what you mean by "this type of situation."

One qualifies for a sneak attack as a rogue for one of two reasons. Either one flanks the target, or the target is denied his Dex bonus to AC.

There is no way for the rogue to get a sneak attack with his bow by virtue of flanking, because he cannot flank with it. Sneak attacks by virtue of the target being denied Dex bonus to AC are still possible with ranged attacks, if they are within 30 feet. There are many ways that that could come about.

 

[Shaele]

Thanks for the help everyone. Last night, I thought they could - probably because I was thinking of a Peerless Archer thread I had read here a couple of days ago (Pearless? heh, I love that). My confusion.

--Dr_Rictus---
Sneak attacks by virtue of the target being denied Dex bonus to AC are still possible with ranged attacks, if they are within 30 feet. There are many ways that that could come about.
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Hmm. I can think of spells to handle this (hold person etc), but are there any mundane ways that a fighter and rogue can accomplish this as a duo? (our rogue got tired of being beat upon in melee combat and really wants to go ranged - but wants some means of keeping his sneak attack damage too).

 

[Quidam]

Well....

The fighter could grapple the opponent. That'd deny the Dex bonus. However, it also gives you a 50% chance of hitting the fighter with a missile weapon. (phb123 table 8-8: the ONLY place this rule is located, oddly enough) If your fighter PINS the baddie, then you're golden- no chance of hitting the fighter and the defender gets no AC bonus.

So if this is something you'll want to do a lot, have the fighter load up on grapple feats. And maybe get him some Gloves of Corrosive Grasp.

 

[0-hr]

are there any mundane ways that a fighter and rogue can accomplish this as a duo? (our rogue got tired of being beat upon in melee combat and really wants to go ranged - but wants some means of keeping his sneak attack damage too).

I think that is one of the trade offs built into the sneak attack classes. But there are certainly some ways to get around it. The bad guy will lose his DEX bonus to AC under several condistions, inlcuding if he is grappled, stunned, blinded, or off blance. So you need to figure out a way for the fighter to put the bad guy into one of those states. (Grappling is proably a bad idea if the rogue wants to be shooting arrows into the pile. )

 

[aliensex]

But what if the rogue hid himself? IMC, if the rogue is able to beat the opponents Spot with a Hide check (assuming it is possible under the conditions), he can essentially make a Sneak Attack on his next initiative. I usually rule that he has to Move Silently to a flanking position as well to gain the sneak attack. This is all if he wants to do a ranged sneak attack.

If they are fighting in a big enough area, I figure that he can usually attempt a hide if the target is engaged in melee. If not, it is usually not possible, unless the environment really supports it.