D&D 5E Can you retry a failed skill check? How long?

[Wrathamon]

There is no then the warrior tries, then the cleric ...

Rogue tried ... he failed. He wants to try again

DM: You feel the lock might be beyond your abilty

Warrior wants to try

DM: Are you proficient in Thieve's tools? No? You feel the lock is too complex for you to "get lucky".

Wizard wants to try and I am proficient ... (took criminal background or something)

DM: Make a Dexterity Check ... eww so close.

Cleric wants to try

DM: Cleric roll a 1d8 ...

Cleric: Why?

DM: while you were all trying to figure out how to open this lock something happens.


There is no everyone can make a check. It's up to the DM who makes a check and who doesnt.

 

[Crothian]

There is no then the warrior tries, then the cleric ...

Rogue tried ... he failed. He wants to try again

DM: You feel the lock might be beyond your abilty

Warrior wants to try

DM: Are you proficient in Thieve's tools? No? You feel the lock is too complex for you to "get lucky".

Wizard wants to try and I am proficient ... (took criminal background or something)

DM: Make a Dexterity Check ... eww so close.

Cleric wants to try

DM: Cleric roll a 1d8 ...

Cleric: Why?

DM: while you were all trying to figure out how to open this lock something happens.


There is no everyone can make a check. It's up to the DM who makes a check and who doesnt.

In that situation I let everyone make a check. Just because they roll a die doesn't mean that they have a chance to succeed. I've had players roll a natural 20 and still fail at things.

 

[drjones]

Look at how the 4e save mechanic that was partially imported into 5e dealt with duration. Rather than roll 1d4+1 for how long the debuff lasts the target gets a save each turn, statistically the result is similar.

I can think of fun instances where a skill check can work in a similar way. The simplest being, party is being threatened on one side of the door and the thief is picking the lock with a hard difficulty. By allowing rerolls you set a timer on how long it will take to get through. Yes, getting through is inevitable but it does not feel inevitable because if it takes too many tries there will be an orc spear up the thieves bum. And while success on the first round is possible it is unlikely meaning tension can build and players can use creative tactics to assist with the unlocking or dealing with the threat.

I guess I don't see how 'No, never' or 'yes, always' are as satisfying in play as 'maybe, sometimes'. I do thank that new DMs and players should probably lean towards 'yes, always' because they are the ones most likely to not be making perfect decisions both in adventure design and in dungeoneering.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

In that situation I let everyone make a check. Just because they roll a die doesn't mean that they have a chance to succeed. I've had players roll a natural 20 and still fail at things.

In my experience, players aren't terribly happy when they fail after rolling a 20. It makes them feel even worse than if you tell them that they can't even try.

Fortunately, that's something which should be going out of style with 5E. Unfortunately, it becomes even more important to not let the untrained barbarian try, since she probably could succeed with a good roll. (Unless you don't particularly care about the barbarian showing up the rogue every now and then.)

 

[Wrathamon]

In my experience, players aren't terribly happy when they fail after rolling a 20. It makes them feel even worse than if you tell them that they can't even try.

Fortunately, that's something which should be going out of style with 5E. Unfortunately, it becomes even more important to not let the untrained barbarian try, since she probably could succeed with a good roll. (Unless you don't particularly care about the barbarian showing up the rogue every now and then.)

picking a lock is insanely hard to do even if you have picks.

If you arent proficient at it ... then no you cant pick it (when I'm running) but you can bash the crap at it in attempt to bust it. Again in my game.

The rules are up to the DM to determine if a Check is needed or not, the player can just say what they want to do.
The player can say they are trying to pick the lock, but that doesn't mean they get to roll the dice and check to see if it worked or not.
That is up to the DM.

Some DMs will say don't worry about rolling rogue you automatically succeed because there is no threat, it takes you 5 mins. Others, may say roll and you only get one chance better make it count. Others might give you one more chance but after that the check is impossible. Some may be like I am and say you need to be proficient at picking locks to attempt it, and if everyone insists on trying then their might be consequences for taking too long.l

Again, 5e is empowering the DM to make these game decisions, and those can be different based on the DM running the game. 3e and 4e it was up to the player to decide and I think that might be the part that is hard to let go of, but if your DM likes that style and you like playing that style then its a perfect DM/Player match up.

we can debate discuss how we run a game but at the end of the day its up to the DM and the players at the table to determine how they want to play, not the raw. The raw is loose on this on purpose.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

picking a lock is insanely hard to do even if you have picks.

I tend to agree on this point, but I'm not sure that the RAW or ROI really back it up. I think both RAW and ROI would just set the DC for the lock, maybe at 19, and anyone can try if they have picks. (I think they're saying that you can't even attempt it if you don't have picks, because your training is in the tools rather than with the locks.) That's just the intent of the game, that pretty much anyone has a chance, albeit usually a small one.

One thing I would bring back, that I think they're ignoring in 5E, is the concept of the "trained only" check. If you aren't trained in something, then sometimes you just automatically fail. The barbarian can't even try to pick a lock, even if the only mechanical difference between the untrained barbarian and the trained wizard is a +2 proficiency bonus.

 

[Wrathamon]

wait, I thought you had to be proficient in thieve's tools to use thieve's tools?

But, reading thieve's tool everyone can use them just not get the bonus.

I would HR that, but if I was running a game at a organized event, if everyone wanted to "try" I might just be mean and say the lock jams on the first miss.

ok maybe I would just ask the table if how they want to play to speed up the game in these situations.

The DCs are too low to take 20. You pretty much always succeed. There is no fun in that, but I think using passive 10+ to autosucceed is fine, and if the passive wont work you can attempt a roll.

 

[Cannyjiggit]

Apologies for resurrecting this thread, it came up whilst I was searching for something else and I realised no-one else posted anything like the system we generally use.

For something that requires a check, there is always a roll (assuming suitable tools are available if needed, e.g. lock picks). The difference comes when the roll is not an automatic success. There is often only one roll but if the task can be repeatedly attempted and there is no immediate time pressure, as most regular locks can, then the difference between the roll and the required DC is an indication of the amount of time it takes to get it right (our campaigns always have some sort of longer term time pressure such as the high level wizard being due back in 3 days). If there is an immediate pressure then rerolls happen in combat rounds.

This can even work on checks where only one roll is permissable such as the deception vs insight roll of the bard convincing the guard that the party are have been requested inside the palace. In this scenario, lets say our bard rolls a 6. She has total modifers of +6 though giving a 12. She has no idea how stupid or otherwise this guard might be and no idea how well or badly the DM might have rolled for him. If the DMs modified roll was a 5 then the guard would quickly agree with her and let the party in, if it was a 10 then it would take a few minutes before they got in but it would still be a success. Failures work in a similar way but the time is how long it takes the bard to realise she hasn't convinced the guard of her story and should make an escape (this part initially feels counter-intuitive but works well when the party are used to time based success or failure). If the DM rolled a 13 or 14, the bard quickly realises he hasn't fallen for it but if the guard was unusually wise and got a good roll, he could keep the bard talking for quite some time whilst he looks for backup to make sure the party don't get away or just to have some fun at their expense (if its a more friendly area/situation).

 

[Thank Dog]

It's up to the DM to allow you to re-try.

Yeah, like a lot of things in 5e, it seems this one is up to the DM and the group.

Personally I don't like unlimited re-rolls. I tend to come up with a reason why it can't be done. Failing at something doesn't mean unlimited retries will guarantee success (outside of the mechanics of a game system, I mean). Sometimes things are harder than they appeared to be for whatever reason. It might only be a DC 10 to open a lock but your rogue with proficiency in thieves' tools rolled a 1. Oh well, that particular lock has an odd tumbler mechanism that you can't quite figure out right now, bad luck. That DC 10 wall that looked so easy to climb is actually covered in moss and all those hand-holds are of flaky mortar with loose fieldstones. Bummer.

If you allow for taking 10 and unlimited rolls, it does two things in my opinion. It grossly undermines several class abilities, like the rogue's Reliable Talent, and it creates a situation where there is little to no chance of failure and rolling at all is redundant. In which case, why even give the task a DC?

 

[aramis erak]

I don't allow a retry unless there's a CLEAR penalty for failing.

EG: trying to hide from the bigbad - failure means he can attack you. After the attack, sure, try again.

EG: disarming the poison trap - if you fail, you take a d4 poison damage and save vs con or acquire the Poisoned condition.

EG: Climbing the wall - if you fail, you fall, taking falling damage and having to restart.

EG: scribing that letter - if you fail, you're out the time and effort, plus the sheet and some ink. Fail badly, and you need a new quill.

If the roll is...
... to spot something, retry after a rest
... to know something, retry next level
... to gain some bonus, retry when the situation changes a lot.