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Can you sleep in armour with no penalty?

Ninja-to

First Post
As the subject, this question came up in our last session, and as 3.5 has an annoying tendency to tamper with my rules memory bank, I couldn't find the reference though I know it existed in 3.5 for sure.

In 4th Ed are you now able to sleep in your full plate without consequence / penalties?
 

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we have gone back and forth on this in my group...in my games (where I DM) I do not allowe anything over leather to be slept in and put a big issue on PCs sleeping ready for war...


on the other hand when ross was running his game we got attacked in our sleep, I stood up in no armor, with no weapons or implments, and no items...I then used a minor to grab a weapon and entered battle... everyone else had full weapons and items readied and told me I was being a fool...
 

ppaladin123

Adventurer
There is no rule for this in 4e. I think this fits into the same design philosophy that took away the penalty for firing into melee without first taking a feat. Those sorts of feats (and feats/features that, for example, let you sleep in armor without penalty) were viewed as "taxes," that should simply be assumed. As an adventurer you are accustomed to sleeping in armor, firing into melee, and so forth; you are special and a clear cut above other folk even at level 1.

Of course, this always brings up the same debate about whether this is a good thing. Some people feel that 4e can't nicely portray a character rising up from a lowly farm-hand to a hero; there isn't much space early in the heroic tier for "green" adventurers, i.e. everyone is a veteran from level 1. So, there may be certain narratives that might not work using this system (without house rules).
 

Unwise

Adventurer
Personally I think that players attempting to sleep in full armor by default is very 'gamey'. Players will find themselves without roleplaying XP for the session at the very least if they insist on that.

In my games you can sleep in armor but you can only regain half as many healing surges as normal and can only have a maximum of 1 less than normal. Taking a nap/rest in full plate armor in between waves of a seige (for example) is fine, it will re-energise you pretty well, but not like a real rest.

I also make assumptions about a characters off-screen habits based upon the way that they act on-screen. The guy that always sleeps in armor will smell really bad and generally does not care about hygiene very much, which other people tend to notice. The guy that insists on always being armed and near an exit is assumed to be paranoid and more than a little delusional/shell-shocked. NPCs deal with them accordingly.
 

Pentius

First Post
I just assumed "I get up in the morning and put on my armor." was one of those things that doesn't have rules about it because it isn't a big part of the narrative. Kinda like how we all assume our characters pee, even though there are no penalties(by RAW) for holding it for any length of time.
 

ppaladin123

Adventurer
Personally I think that players attempting to sleep in full armor by default is very 'gamey'. Players will find themselves without roleplaying XP for the session at the very least if they insist on that.

In my games you can sleep in armor but you can only regain half as many healing surges as normal and can only have a maximum of 1 less than normal. Taking a nap/rest in full plate armor in between waves of a seige (for example) is fine, it will re-energise you pretty well, but not like a real rest.

I also make assumptions about a characters off-screen habits based upon the way that they act on-screen. The guy that always sleeps in armor will smell really bad and generally does not care about hygiene very much, which other people tend to notice. The guy that insists on always being armed and near an exit is assumed to be paranoid and more than a little delusional/shell-shocked. NPCs deal with them accordingly.


I agree it could be "gamey." Of course, I've played in enough groups where the DM routinely uses nighttime ambushes because he knows the players won't have access to their armor bonus that I've become a bit paranoid about it. "Gamey" DMs breed "gamey" players.:)

On the other hand, if a small adventuring party was in enemy territory and a nighttime assault was a real possibility, it would make sense to sleep in armor clutching their weapons. Soldiers throughout history occasionally have had to do this during sieges and before big battles and apparently could still function and win the next day so, while it certainly isn't comfortable or as restful as a night on a Tempurpedic mattress it isn't incapacitating or seriously debilitating if done only once and a while.

So for example, the half-healing surge thing seems a bit strong. Any graduate student can tell you that you can pull an all-nighter before a huge presentation, due-date, conference, or whatever and make it through the day on pure adrenaline; you just can't do it on subsequent nights. In another, more "physical" instance I slept in Yosemite with insufficiently warm clothing (I learned a valuable lesson that night) and on uncomfortable, rocky ground (but in a tent), got at most 2-3 hour of restless sleep and then climbed Half-Dome. I obviously did not lose half of my total life force as a result of this awful night of sleep. I was darn exhausted though and if I were forced to do it again the next night, I would probably have become seriously ill and unable to function. On the other hand, I am not a legendary hero with super-human strength either.

If I were to do this I would probably let players sleep in their armor once and while without penalty. If they did so on two or three or four nights in a row I would subject them to an increasingly stiff endurance check; they would begin to lose access to more and more surges, start gaining penalties to perception, and insight, and take additional surge "damage" if they tried to cram multiple encounters into the same day. I think you can adjust the severity of the penalties according to the power level of your campaign. I'm guessing in the epic tier when the characters are all demi-gods and can warp space-time, a couple of nights sleeping in their armor is not going to phase them much.

Of course, I am not one to tell someone how to have fun so use whatever system you'd like.
 

Ninja-to

First Post
There is no rule for this in 4e. I think this fits into the same design philosophy that took away the penalty for firing into melee without first taking a feat. Those sorts of feats (and feats/features that, for example, let you sleep in armor without penalty) were viewed as "taxes," that should simply be assumed. As an adventurer you are accustomed to sleeping in armor, firing into melee, and so forth; you are special and a clear cut above other folk even at level 1.

Of course, this always brings up the same debate about whether this is a good thing. Some people feel that 4e can't nicely portray a character rising up from a lowly farm-hand to a hero; there isn't much space early in the heroic tier for "green" adventurers, i.e. everyone is a veteran from level 1. So, there may be certain narratives that might not work using this system (without house rules).

This is a great response and answers all my questions. I also found that in the PHB under extended rest, it says specifically that you don't actually have to 'sleep' to gain the benefits of the extended rest, and it seems fairly obvious that it was not referring to Eladrin trances etc.

By the way this problem came up during a watch when the party was attacked and the player (normally in full plate) decided to run into the battle after being woken up. I had (and still have) a minor problem with the image of a guy lying down with all that metal on him. The noise alone would be keeping the camp up should he toss or turn... just seemed very gamey as others have mentioned.

Looks like this may need a house-ruling. Perhaps to keep it less punitive to put the armour on, for example allow the PC to don the armour more quickly than normal (maybe a full round) rather than 5 minutes.

To get around this the player has already bought 'Hide Armor pj's' which seem to be defeating the purpose of keeping things in a roleplaying context. I understand where he's coming from. His AC takes a massive hit without his plate should they be attacked during his turn to sleep. It just seems silly to have him sleeping in his bunk in a robocop suit.
 
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Ninja-to

First Post
After thinking about this for a few minutes, I think I've come up with a solution I like.

Sleeping in anything more than Light armour means you lose one healing surge, and it is cumulative for each day. If you sleep without the plate, you regain one healing surge each day until you recover back to normal.

For example, if Bob the Paladin has 10 healing surges, and sleeps for a week in his plate, he will only be able to use 3 of his 10 surges. It will then take him a full week of sleeping 'normally' to get all his surges back. This isn't necessarily game breaking, but I can even see how it could actually enhance the roleplaying aspect. Knowing they're down on healing surges, and by how many, you can gauge just how exhausted and haggard a player looks depending on how many rough nights they've had.

The reason for the slow recovery is I can see players racking up a lot of nights in plate, then sleeping just one day and expecting to get everything back to normal. My take on this is that it would take time to recover from this kind of activity.

Also, to stop the Hide Armour PJ problem, I'll allow the player to 'strip down' the heavier parts of their plate, treat it as Hide armour in terms of AC, and have them be able to rest normally. This should also entirely avoid the problem above unless a player is so adamant as to demand to wear his plate even single night rather than use a little ropeplaying common sense. If the armour is magical, allow it to function normally but as Hide and deal with 'special' problems that may cause on a case-by-case basis.
 
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delericho

Legend
I would allow it if the character is trained in Endurance. If not, they simply can't take an extended rest while wearing armour. (Not RAW; that would be my ruling.)

Of course, I also make the night-time raid a very rare occurance.
 

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