Can you spider Climb on solid ice?

[Ferox4]

from the SRD:

Spider Climb
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
The subject can climb and travel on vertical surfaces or even traverse ceilings as well as a spider does. The affected creature must have bare hands and feet to climb in this manner. The subject climbs at half its speed. A creature with a Strength score of at least 20 +1 per caster level can pull the subject off a wall.

I spontaneously ruled that a PC could not spider climb on solid ice surfaces. The spell simulates a spider's ability to climb surfaces and does not magically allow you to crawl like a spider on anything. I can't recall the last time I saw a spider scaling an icicle......

Fair ruling?

edited for content & spelling

 

[Wippit Guud]

Nope... for that you need icewalking, description on white dragon, dunno if you could make it into a spell or not.

 

[Bagpuss]

I would say no, and you find it impossible to get out of the bath while under the effects of this spell as well. It would be better if it gave you a +20 to climb checks or something like that.

 

[MangahunterD]

That is a good question. It depends on how you see your "Special Effect" of spider climb. In reality many spiders are able to cling to surfaces because they have tiny claws that they use to cling to surfaces. This theoretically would allow them to climb on ice. The description is ambiguous so it is up to you to decide how the climbing is done. However since it allows them to climb on ceilings that would also seem to support that they could climb on ice. If you decide to go with sticky hands though you should play it to the hilt and make sure everything stick to the PC's hands, that could be quite humorous......

 

[Ferox4]

Also from the SRD:

A perfectly smooth, flat, vertical surface cannot be climbed.

I guess that pretty much supports my ruling. On a flat sheet of ice I would give a PC using Spider Climb a bonus to their Balance or Reflex check vs. slipping and falling down - say, +10 or so.

 

[Celebrim]

I have always been bothered by 3rd edition spider climb. Slippers of Spider Climb have proven somewhat unbalancing in a couple of games I played, both as a PC and as a DM. I was part of a debate not long ago over exactly what the effects of Spider Climb were and as best as I can tell, the spell doesn't even do what it claims it does.

Assuming that the phrase 'as well as a spider does' is literal, we can by examining how well a spider climbs determine how well a spell caster using this spell should be able to climb.

The actual game effects of Spider Climb appear to be it lets the user take 10 on climb checks, and it increases the users racial bonus to climb by +8.

That's it.

Spiders according to the MM have no racial bonus to climb checks. The above abilities are simply a side effect of the user gaining a climb speed, an assumption supported by the phrase "The subject climbs at half its speed."

The spell is still useful, but it won't let a user crawl across the ceiling spider man like unless they are already a quite skilled climber. Given that the DC of ceilings is according to the Epic Level Handbook like 40 (or maybe higher, I don't remember exactly), you are definately going to have to bump the spell up alot (and by extension the climbing prowess of spiders) if you are going to get the spell to realistically allow 1st level characters to climb along ceilings.

I personally think that I'm going to give spiders an additional +4 racial bonus to climb checks, which should get the spell back doing most of what it is expected to do.

Back to the original question, I don't thik slipperyness has anything to do with it. Nothing in the MM description of spiders says that they have particular problems with slippery surfaces - slippery surfaces are just harder for everything. Given the effects of the spell, 'slippery's +5 modifier to DC will be enough to cause most people trouble when attempting to climb a wall of ice.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

That's part of the Climb skill, but a spider can climb up a perfectly smooth wall. Slippers of Spider Climbing, in the DMG, are useless on icy, oily, or greasy surfaces of any kind. Perhaps that is how the spell should work, too.

 

[Magic Rub]

I would say that Dr. Zoom's idea on "why not", holds water.


But as for...

"when was the last time you saw a spider climb on ice"

I have, & YES they can climb on ice. I've tested this for myself (I was a twisted little kid). Spiders do not climb on ice because they freeze to death in a very short amount of time. Thats the reason why you don't see it. Not because it couldn't "stick" to it. But this all comes back to compairing D&D to real life. As we all have been told time & time again, don't, it doesn't work.

Based on Dr. Zooms find, & for a twist in gameplay I would rule, No, the spell does not work on ice. I think it work make a nice puzzle for a spider climb happy party to over come.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

FWIW, I think the phrase "as well as a spider does" is too vague for a good spell description. I hope 3.5 rewords this spell so that it is more clear how it works and how it interacts with differant types of surfaces. For now, I use the Slippers as a guideline for how the spell works on icy surfaces.

 

[Celebrim]

The problem I have with the slippers in particular is that they appear to give the users at the very least a +30 or so bonus to climb, and climb has proven to be a very powerful ability especially at low levels.

I've seen PC's use the slippers to walk along the dungeon ceilings, thereby avoiding virtually every trap and perplexing many of the dungeon inhabitants. If you add further that in many situations climbing like a spider involves a large bonus to balance checks, it simply negates too many challenges.

The slippers have proven very nearly the equal of fly against anything that doesn't itself fly.

Now that D&D is skill based, large bonuses to skills as provided by items are extremely powerful and in my opinion they have been 'undercosted' in 3.0. Permanent spider climb provides the equivalent of a very large bonus to climb indeed, at a fraction of the cost of such a bonus.