can you take 10 on a hide check?

[Hypersmurf]

But, you don't set the DC once. If two people come down the road into my ambush, I make two hide checks, each opposed by individual spot checks.

Out of curiosity, if there are, say, three potential observers, how many Move Silently checks would you call for if I attempted to sneak past? One check opposed by three Listens, or three checks opposed by one Listen each?

How many Bluff checks would you call for if I attempted to explain my presence? One check opposed by three Sense Motives, or three checks opposed by one Sense Motive each?

How many Sleight of Hand checks would you call for if I attempted to palm an object under close observation? One check opposed by three Spot checks, or three checks opposed by one Spot each?

An initiative check is a Dexterity check. It has no DC, so how can I make the check? And if a combat begins with me and three other participants, I don't make three opposed checks with the three other people, who each make opposed checks with each other as well. I make a single check, as do they, and our results are ordered highest to lowest.

-Hyp.

 

[Vengeful]

You most definately do if you pick Skill Mastery as one of your Rogue Special abilities, and then pick Hide as one of the skills you master.

Take 10 on any skill check you choose, even in distracting situations

 

[bodhi]

But, you don't set the DC once. If two people come down the road into my ambush, I make two hide checks, each opposed by individual spot checks.

So, say these are city guards, not searching for me specifically, but looking out for suspicious characters. Thus, they are taking 10 on their Spot checks. You're saying I roll Hide twice, once for each guard? So against two identical (for Spot purposes) guards, I roll lousy against one, and great against the other, and the first yells "You there, stop!" and the second asks "Who are you yelling at? There's no one there."

 

[Dheran]

So, say these are city guards, not searching for me specifically, but looking out for suspicious characters. Thus, they are taking 10 on their Spot checks. You're saying I roll Hide twice, once for each guard? So against two identical (for Spot purposes) guards, I roll lousy against one, and great against the other, and the first yells "You there, stop!" and the second asks "Who are you yelling at? There's no one there."

Yes, that's absolutely correct. While the guards may have identical skills, they're viewing you from different positions. From the first guard's viewpoint you're not as well hidden as you are from the second guard. But because "your character is not being threatened or distracted", you could have taken 10 on your Hide check, meaning you would have done an average job of hiding yourself from all angles. Then it's more likely that both guards would see you or miss you -- although not certain, because the distance penalties may still affect their Spot results differently depending on how close each comes to your hiding position.

 

[Hussar]

Yes, that's absolutely correct. While the guards may have identical skills, they're viewing you from different positions. From the first guard's viewpoint you're not as well hidden as you are from the second guard. But because "your character is not being threatened or distracted", you could have taken 10 on your Hide check, meaning you would have done an average job of hiding yourself from all angles. Then it's more likely that both guards would see you or miss you -- although not certain, because the distance penalties may still affect their Spot results differently depending on how close each comes to your hiding position.

What he said.

An initiative check is a Dexterity check. It has no DC, so how can I make the check? And if a combat begins with me and three other participants, I don't make three opposed checks with the three other people, who each make opposed checks with each other as well. I make a single check, as do they, and our results are ordered highest to lowest.

Note that initiative is a Dex Check, not a skill check, so it's not exactly the same thing. Nor is initiative actually an opposed check at all. You do not succeed or fail, you simply take an order in the round.

Under no circumstance can I fail an initiative check. Also, conversely, I can never succeed one either.

If initiative were a skill check, then, by all accounts here, I should be able to take 10. Heck, I should be able to sit and wait and take 20 on initiative. But, since you cannot ready an action outside of combat, you can't. I get my surprise round, but, once that's done, my next action comes whenever I roll my init.

Heck, an attack is a strength (or possibly dex) check. I should be able to take 10 on that as well. If I'm standing 150 feet away from a slow moving target, why can't I take 10 on my bow attack?

As far as sneaking past three people, you should make three separate checks. That's where taking 10 is your friend, because, you can take 10 on move silently checks.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If initiative were a skill check, then, by all accounts here, I should be able to take 10.

Interesting.

At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check.

and

Ability Checks and Caster Level Checks: The normal take 10 and take 20 rules apply for ability checks. Neither rule applies to caster level checks.

An initiative check is explicitly a Dexterity check, which is an ability check, which means the normal take 10 rules apply.

Now:
Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10.

However, by definition, an initiative check occurs before combat has been initiated.

It looks like taking 10 on initiative might be valid...

Heck, an attack is a strength (or possibly dex) check. I should be able to take 10 on that as well.

An attack is neither a Strength nor a Dexterity check; it's an attack roll.

-Hyp.

 

[Sound of Azure]

So, what was the DC for your hide check? How can you say that you have successfully used a skill for which there is no DC?

Hide checks don't have a DC. They set the DC for the opposed Spot check.

 

[Hussar]

Hide checks don't have a DC. They set the DC for the opposed Spot check.

Sorry, wrong.

Spot sets the DC for any hide check. Spot is used reflexively as per RAW:

Action

Varies. Every time you have a chance to spot something in a reactive manner you can make a Spot check without using an action.

It would be extremely difficult to use Hide in a reflexive manner.

Action

Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action.

You make hide as a part of movement. In other words, you must initiate the hide skill. There is no reflexive nature at all.

The DC of your hide check is whatever Spot check is made. I can Spot all day long automatically. In fact, everything that is capable of perceiving automatically makes Spot checks every second they are awake. Thus, Spot is reflexive.

Trying to hide before a spot check would be the same as making Open Lock checks with no lock around. Without a DC, you cannot make a skill check. Spot checks are made when something comes into visual range that doesn't want to be seen.

Or, to put it another way, if you make a hide check with no spotter, you automatically succeed. Each and every time. But, the second there is a spotter, you have to make a new hide check opposed by the spotter's spot check.

Y'know Hype, I believe you are right. By RAW, you should be able to Take 10 on an initiative check. Hrm, Y'know, that would be a pretty decent way to speed up combats. Would make Improved Initiative one hell of a good feat.

 

[SlagMortar]

As far as sneaking past three people, you should make three separate checks. That's where taking 10 is your friend, because, you can take 10 on move silently checks.

Surely these move silently checks should not be independent? If one guard is standing 20 feet to my left and one guard is standing 20 feet to my right, how can I make a bunch of noise to the left (roll a 1 on move silently against left guard) while making virtually no noise to the right (roll a 20 on move silently against the right guard)?

 

[Hussar]

Surely these move silently checks should not be independent? If one guard is standing 20 feet to my left and one guard is standing 20 feet to my right, how can I make a bunch of noise to the left (roll a 1 on move silently against left guard) while making virtually no noise to the right (roll a 20 on move silently against the right guard)?

Because skill checks are an abstract system?

I would interpret it as, the guy on the left heard you, while the one on the right didn't, despite your attempt to be sneaky. That's what the dice say.

Trying to determine exactly what happened in an abstract system is like trying to determine exactly how large a wound 5 hp of damage is.