Case against continuity

[GMMichael]

But the thing is, I kinda don’t give a crap about stories. I love cool, gripping scenes. Pretty much all the storytelling wisdom is about arcs, resolution of conflict, change. Maybe I’m a hack and I just suck at creating interesting characters, skill issue, yeah, maybe. Or maybe there’s something valuable in the distinct lack of change.

I've got the thing for you: Eamon-remastered.com. Make your character, pick your quest, play it through, take home loot. Want more? Play it again. Try that idea you didn't try the last time. See what happens. Or make a different character, put it through the same quest.

I've been working on the DRPG version of it, but . . .

I’ll work in this direction more, but for now, I’ll probably pause design work. Online play for Inner Sanctum ain’t gonna implement itself, after all.

. . . it also doesn't self-implement. So it's moving along at the One Amateur's Production Speed. But I really like the concept, because sometimes you don't want a campaign, and don't care if the Quest-Giver gets his farm back, or the Rogue's long-lost brother is rescued. But that last quest sure was a blast, and it might be a whole new experience if a different party tried it.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I'm trying to think of any great work of fiction that is a product of good scenes without a good story accompanying it and I'm drawing a complete blank. Cool scenes without a good story is just a bunch of sound and fury signifying nothing. It might be a tasty treat like consuming a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup, but it doesn't truly satisfy like a decent meal would. Man of Steel had some cool scenes in it, but ultimately I didn't care for the movie very much because the characterizations and overall story were not to my liking. Whenever I think of a "cool" scene that has next to nothing to do with the overall story it brings me back to how much I hate Tom #%^#%# Bombadil.

Continuity does not equal stagnation. You can certainly maintain continuity in a setting while simultaneously making changes. Just because the king has been around for twenty years doesn't mean he's going to be around for the next twenty.

Kafka...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Taken as a complete catalog, you're right; but within each Bond or Indiana Jones movie there's a very discernable one-thing-leads-to-the-next story arc. And each of those arcs is considerably longer than the single scene the OP seems to be after.

Taken as a whole, the Bond catalog might almost map to playing a party Gygax-style through a series of dungeons or adventures that while each interesting in their own right have little-to-nothing to do with each other in any sort of bigger picture.

Yeah I agree. Even within each movie there's often a couple of different sections that only tie together via some visit to M where Bond is told to go to some new location, etc. There's always a girl and a villain that shows up in each part, and sometimes across films, but minimal actual plot.

 

[MGibster]

Kafka...

I was going to read something by him, but something about the guy always bugged me....

 

[loverdrive]

if the consequences of the change are that boring get new writers. If the consequences of that change are so dramatic you want to slit your throat and die, get new writers. But to have a good story sometimes (and I think modern writers were never taught this) things have to be normal so the incoming drama is actually framed with enough normality to be a shock. If everything is one dramatic scene after another then you have a soap opera.

Last time I checked, we were on a roleplaying forum, so "hiring better writers" ain't really an option.

Regardless.

Consequences of a change can often entail complete and utter destruction of the aspect that brought the most joy. In a recent superhero game my character had a burning romance with her nemesis (but neither actually knew that, supers and their masks, y'know). In the last session, the truth came out. Turns out, a girl from the flower shop that listened with a gorgeous smile as I taught how to repair bike engines is actually a supervillain by night!

That was a cathartic revelation. I don't care for dealing with it, though. I know it can be dramatic and interesting, but I don't care, the character dynamic has shifted into something different completely.

Intellectually, I understand that it can be developed in a satisfying way, just like intellectually I understand that, idk, Counter Strike is a well-designed game with a lot of depth. Doesn't make me enjoy it, though.

 

[Old Fezziwig]

Good fiction is in the eye of the beholder, I guess - but in the context of typical RPGing, I think that James Bond and Indian Jones movies fit this description to quite an extent. Also MCU movies (cf the X-Men movies, which do have stories).

Taken as a complete catalog, you're right; but within each Bond or Indiana Jones movie there's a very discernable one-thing-leads-to-the-next story arc. And each of those arcs is considerably longer than the single scene the OP seems to be after.

Yeah I agree. Even within each movie there's often a couple of different sections that only tie together via some visit to M where Bond is told to go to some new location, etc. There's always a girl and a villain that shows up in each part, and sometimes across films, but minimal actual plot.

I've always thought that the Bond movies were kind of weird from a narrative point of view. I can't seem to find it again now that I'm looking for it (of course), but I once read a reasonably compelling argument that they're all falling action, essentially starting at the climax and running through to the denouement. I think the rebooted movies have somewhat more traditional narratives (especially Casino Royale), but the older ones can be a bit loosey-goosey (to use a technical term). Anyhow, this is all to say that what I feel is the weirdness of the narratives of the Bond movies does feel like D&D to me. Things are happening, but is what's happening plot or narrative? Maybe yes, maybe it's just one-damn-thing-after-another.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I was going to read something by him, but something about the guy always bugged me....

Don't bother, unless you just want the ticket punch. His material did not age well.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Last time I checked, we were on a roleplaying forum, so "hiring better writers" ain't really an option.

Regardless.

Consequences of a change can often entail complete and utter destruction of the aspect that brought the most joy. In a recent superhero game my character had a burning romance with her nemesis (but neither actually knew that, supers and their masks, y'know). In the last session, the truth came out. Turns out, a girl from the flower shop that listened with a gorgeous smile as I taught how to repair bike engines is actually a supervillain by night!

That was a cathartic revelation. I don't care for dealing with it, though. I know it can be dramatic and interesting, but I don't care, the character dynamic has shifted into something different completely.

Intellectually, I understand that it can be developed in a satisfying way, just like intellectually I understand that, idk, Counter Strike is a well-designed game with a lot of depth. Doesn't make me enjoy it, though.

First, never trust an NPC. They are simply tools of the GM to screw over or manipulate the party.

Second, never trust romance. It is just Rule One intensified.

 

[payn]

I've always thought that the Bond movies were kind of weird from a narrative point of view. I can't seem to find it again now that I'm looking for it (of course), but I once read a reasonably compelling argument that they're all falling action, essentially starting at the climax and running through to the denouement. I think the rebooted movies have somewhat more traditional narratives (especially Casino Royale), but the older ones can be a bit loosey-goosey (to use a technical term). Anyhow, this is all to say that what I feel is the weirdness of the narratives of the Bond movies does feel like D&D to me. Things are happening, but is what's happening plot or narrative? Maybe yes, maybe it's just one-damn-thing-after-another.

Thats an interesting take because I always felt like my RPG sessions were like the old "loosey-goosey" Bond films. Little bit of set up and whole lot of action until the end. I want my games to be more like John Le Carre stories, but ill settle for the modern Bond style if I can get it.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

Like roleplaying flash fiction essentially, the activity itself as a series of improv skit prompts that you play out for the fun of each skit, possibly with the same characters. I'm reminded of the board game Fog of Love as well, if you lean into the encouragement to roleplay. Strictly speaking, it would have continuity, but in practice its a series of episodes from throughout the relationship and each scene is essentially a random incident.