Caster level for paladin's detect evil?

[morbiczer]

Hi all!

What is the caster level for the detect evil spell-like ability of the paladin?

I'd say that it equals the number of levels in the paladin class, but is there some rulebacking to this? Or am I completly wrong?
I found no rule dealing with this situation. The monsters in the MM have all fix caster levels assigned to their spell-like abilities.

(I 'd rule out using the caster level of the paladin's spells for this purpose (paladin levels/2), since the detect evil opeates totally independent of the spellcasting ability.)

And a somewhat related question: Would the spell nondetection (potentially) fool the detect evil spell-like ability of the paladin? I'd say no.

 

[Camarath]

I believe the Paladin's caster level for his Detect Evil ability is his class level.

From SRD in Types, Subtypes, and Special Abilities under Special Abilities (Spell-Like)

If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice.

I am not sure if nondetection would foil the Paladin's Detect Evil. I think it would because of this rule quote. If the the Paladin's Detect Evil worls "just like" the spell I would assume that spells or effects that prevented the spell would also prevent the spell-like ability.

From the same SRD section

Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, material, focus, or XP components). They go away in an antimagic field and are subject to spell resistance if the spell the ability resembles or duplicates would be subject to spell resistance.

 

[dcollins]

Nondetection should definitely work the same against detect evil whether it's generated as a spell or a spell-like ability (i.e., successfully).

For consistency I would rule that a paladin's caster level is the same for spells and spell-like abilities (0 up to 3rd level and level/2 after that). That low caster level definitely seems balanced against the at-will ability to use detect evil.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

For consistency I would rule that a paladin's caster level is the same for spells and spell-like abilities (0 up to 3rd level and level/2 after that). That low caster level definitely seems balanced against the at-will ability to use detect evil.

That seems rathered tortured a formula to win points for consistency. What the heck is caster level 0? Why not start at caster level -2 and be really consistent?

If the Paladin's caster level for Detect Evil were so low, he would be consistently hopeless against Nondetection. "Could the Cleric cast a real Detect Evil for us, please?"

From first hand experience, the at-will availability of Detect Evil is definitely balanced by it being of extremely limited value.

In a well-run campaign, you do not attack a critter just because it detects as evil, and a savvy paladin has a very good idea about who deserves to die without leaning on hints from a minor divination.

I say class level.

 

[Hypersmurf]

For consistency I would rule that a paladin's caster level is the same for spells and spell-like abilities (0 up to 3rd level and level/2 after that).

A Paladin's caster level isn't 0 at levels 1 to 3. He doesn't have a caster level at all.

"Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is one-half her paladin level."

-Hyp.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

This is sort of a highjack but it willl be quick.

From first hand experience, the at-will availability of Detect Evil is definitely balanced by it being of extremely limited value.

Does the “at will” component imply that the paladin doesn't need to cast it like normal, but just focus or what not? (Vocal, hand movements, etc) sorry for the lack of correct terminology but I'm away from my books right now.

Oh my vote is for class level; the paladin would be way too ineffective if it was anything different. (What tenth level at level 20? 15 at level 30? He would never be able to detect his enemies at if they where his "equal")

 

[Hypersmurf]

Does the “at will” component imply that the paladin doesn't need to cast it like normal, but just focus or what not? (Vocal, hand movements, etc) sorry for the lack of correct terminology but I'm away from my books right now.

No, "at will" means there's no limit to the number of times he can use the ability.

It's the fact that it's a Spell-Like Ability that means there are no verbal or somatic components.

-Hyp.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

It's the fact that it's a Spell-Like Ability that means there are no verbal or somatic components.

Hyp, as always your an scholar and a gentleman and I thank you.

 

[Gez]

I use half-caster level, rounded down. I don't care about what they say -- having no caster level until level 4 is merely there to prevent paladins from using wands before they can cast spells.

Caster level 0 is just like caster level 1, except it's one level lower. For purpose of the few parameters where 0 is impractical, use 1/2 instead.

For something like detect evil, this just mean a 1st-level paladin has no hope of penetrating the SR of a creature with SR 21.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't care about what they say -- having no caster level until level 4 is merely there to prevent paladins from using wands before they can cast spells.

Uhh... but it doesn't.

Caster level has nothing to do with activating wands. It has something to do with activating scrolls, but not wands.

All you need to activate a wand is to have the spell on your class list. Even without a caster level, a paladin has a class list.

From the 3E Main FAQ:

Can a 1st-level paladin or ranger use a wand of cure light
wounds? Or must the character have enough levels to
actually be a spellcaster.
The requirement for using a spell trigger item (such as a
wand) is having the spell stored in the item on your class spell
list, not having the ability to cast the spell (see page 175 in the
DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide). Since cure light wounds is on both
the paladin and ranger class spell lists, paladins or rangers of
any level can use wands of cure light wounds.

The referenced page in the 3E DMG states "This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd level paladin".

3.5 says exactly the same.

-Hyp.