Casting on the Defence / Combat Casting question

[Li Shenron]

The benefit would be, I believe, the extra +4 bonus on his Concentration roll to beat a DC of 10 + Spell Level + Damage Dealt.

I think that the +4 is only on the defensive casting concentration check, not on on the other concentration check to resist damage.

 

[Legildur]

I think that the +4 is only on the defensive casting concentration check, not on on the other concentration check to resist damage.

Which is why many people advocate substituting Skill Focus (concentration) in place of Combat Casting, so that they get +3 to all concentration checks instead of +4 when casting on the defensive.

However, that option is not much good if you need Combat Casting as a prerequisite for other feats or Prestige Classes.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I think that the +4 is only on the defensive casting concentration check, not on on the other concentration check to resist damage.

Reread the feat description: "You get a +4 bonus on Concentration checks made to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability while on the defensive or while you are grappling or pinned." The key word is 'while'. If it used 'when' the intent, and meaning, of the feat would be a lot clearer. However, my interpretation of the feat is that you get +4 bonus "while on the defensive" no matter what caused you to require a Concentration check. It also makes the feat suck a lot less.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I think that the +4 is only on the defensive casting concentration check, not on on the other concentration check to resist damage.

... which is what he was asking.

If he casts a spell on the defensive, and gets hit with a readied action to disrupt, is he still considered "casting on the defensive" (and, therefore, would get a +4 bonus to his Concentration check if he gets hit)?

I don't think so; I2K runs it a different way.

 

[Infiniti2000]

If he casts a spell on the defensive, and gets hit with a readied action to disrupt, is he still considered "casting on the defensive" (and, therefore, would get a +4 bonus to his Concentration check if he gets hit)?

I don't think so; I2K runs it a different way.

Isn't he still casting on the defensive if he's still casting? Unless you rule that casting on the defensive is only when you start casting and not during the whole spell, you'd have to agree that he is still casting on the defensive throughout the whole spell. Thus, he gets +4 on any subsequent checks, too.

I admit it's a little loose, but I think it's technically correct and it does make the feat useful.

 

[Thanee]

I don't think that's what they meant, but reading it that way certainly makes the feat a little more attractive, which can't be a bad thing with such a lousy feat. It's silly enough that the generic Skill Focus is better in an area, where a specialized feat exists.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Nail]

I admit it's a little loose, but I think it's technically correct and it does make the feat useful.

That's a good catch, and a reasonable interpretation of the word "while".

Yoink!!!

 

[billd91]

I don't think that's what they meant, but reading it that way certainly makes the feat a little more attractive, which can't be a bad thing with such a lousy feat. It's silly enough that the generic Skill Focus is better in an area, where a specialized feat exists.

Bye
Thanee

The generic Skill Focus isn't better in the area that Combat Casting applies, which I believe is to cast while grappling/pinned and to make that casting on the defensive check and nothing more. It's a net +1 on each of those situations.

It's true that Skill Focus, now that it's +3 rather than +2 as in 3.0, is a more useful feat in general since it's nearly as good in those particular situations and better in all other situations in which concentration is useful. But last I checked, nearly as good isn't the same as better than.

I'll agree that Skill Focus (concentration) is better in general than Combat Casting because it's more flexible in its use, but not better than Combat Casting in those instances where Combat Casting applies.

I suspect they didn't think about re-balancing Combat Casting with Skill Focus when they bumped up Skill Focus in 3.5. I agree that Combat Casting tends to pale in comparison to Skill Focus, but since in the games I've played in, characters have rarely held actions to disrupt spell casters other than to counterspell, I've consistently found Combat Casting to be just as useful as Skill Focus. The main threat to spellcasters in the games I've played in are the AoO, not readied actions, and so Combat Casting has been more frequently sought after for that extra +1 on the check rather than the broader appeal of Skill Focus.

 

[Thanee]

The generic Skill Focus isn't better in the area that Combat Casting applies, which I believe is to cast while grappling/pinned and to make that casting on the defensive check and nothing more. It's a net +1 on each of those situations.

Yeah, I meant the whole helping with Concentration checks area. Not the specific checks, obviously CC is better at those by +1.

Bye
Thanee

 

[frankthedm]

Combat casting is worse than toughness by the core rules.* At least the HP are still usable at mid levels, but one your organic concentration hits +14 you auto pass all cast defensivly checks.

*I recommend your casting defensivly check becomes Your AC [if better than your normal AC] Vs. AoO for casting while threatened [like how ride checks become a mount's AC]. This way the feats are actually usefull to take.

Same thing works well for Tumble and Mobility