Challenge: Balanced Stealthy Party

[nittanytbone]

I would get around the Leader issue with a Tactical Warlord that multiclasses into Wizard. A Wizard MC is reasonable for a TacLord, who will have very high INT and can make use of some AoE or control powers. Then they can pick up Disguise Self or Invisibility and be good to go.

There are also some rituals that might help, such as the one from FRCS that allows the whole party to seem like undead.

 

[Vaslov]

Beyond the obvious in rules options of spending feats for skills or using classes that already have access to these skills I would probably run more of the stealth checks as skill challenges. Of course the skill challenge approach could be used with no rule changes at all so some other ideas include...

Rework the class skill lists to make Stealth more available to all classes. These characters are special. Perhaps they are part of a kingdom's SEAL training and do not fit the normal character class mold.

How about another approach where the "leader" could inspire others to be more stealthy. As a warlord inspires others in combat perhaps the rogue could have a power to make the group a bit more stealthy/acrobatic? Or trade out some of the warlord powers to enhance the skills you mention. Consider this your SEAL team leader. Hmm... a rogue like leader. Might be something to that.

Final thought I had is perhaps something along the lines of the old teamwork feats. I never played with them, but as l recall there was one about climbing in a prior edition. Might be worth looking up to see if that inspires you.

Just some random ideas. Hope this helps.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Beyond the obvious in rules options of spending feats for skills or using classes that already have access to these skills I would probably run more of the stealth checks as skill challenges. Of course the skill challenge approach could be used with no rule changes at all so some other ideas include...

Rework the class skill lists to make Stealth more available to all classes. These characters are special. Perhaps they are part of a kingdom's SEAL training and do not fit the normal character class mold.

How about another approach where the "leader" could inspire others to be more stealthy. As a warlord inspires others in combat perhaps the rogue could have a power to make the group a bit more stealthy/acrobatic? Or trade out some of the warlord powers to enhance the skills you mention. Consider this your SEAL team leader. Hmm... a rogue like leader. Might be something to that.

Final thought I had is perhaps something along the lines of the old teamwork feats. I never played with them, but as l recall there was one about climbing in a prior edition. Might be worth looking up to see if that inspires you.

Just some random ideas. Hope this helps.

Random ideas, but really good ones -- thanks. If you don't mind, I'll sum up one part of your idea thusly:

For a non-standard campaign concept, provide non-standard options to the players.

You know, with about 100 years of reading this board, I might feel ready to try being a DM myself...

 

[almuric]

I like the concept. I've been thinking lately about non-standard ways to start a campaign. You know, the 'you're all sitting in a tavern when...' or 'The king needs some people to...' stuff.

If your characters are living in a world where an evil tyrant holds sway, they may be secret revolutionaries and as such, would have had to pick up additional 'skills' in order to survive as long as they have. So give everyone the stealth skill (and for classes that already have the skill, maybe give them a feat bonus or an additional skill to make up for it.) You might want to give additional skills such as 'disguise', 'subterfuge', 'rabble rousing', 'attention diverting', or some such. Come up with a list and let everyone pick two or three. The disguise skill might have one plus for disguising yourself and another for disguising someone else. Everyone's been focused on the dex-based stealth skill, but I could see a lot of use for the Cha-based streetwise and bluff type skills.

They might have developed a special 'Silence' ritual that moves with a person or object. Overuse could be prevented by limiting the amount of money or ritual components availability. In fact, you could let your players come up with a list of rituals that they've invented once you tell them what the goal of the campaign is.

Perhaps the characters have become expert in doing lots of damage very quickly and then disappearing. (Bomb-throwing/setting Artificers, anyone?) You could look into modifying powers to facilitate that, although it would be difficult to do without possibly overpowering one or more characters unless you're well-versed in that sort of thing.

If the overarching campaign goal is to overthrow the tyrant, there's a lot of the campaign that writes itself. One possible way that revolutions happen is that one person or small group of people decides that they've had enough. They'll recruit some people, then each of those people will recruit some more, where each of those groups is a 'cell'. Perhaps the party is one of those cells. Sometimes doing things on their own, sometimes doing things the head of their cell asks.

I could see the whole campaign being more skill-based than combat based because of your initial post saying they need to be stealthy or dead. Well, what happens if they fail a stealth check? Everyone rolls a 1 sooner or later. You don't want to neglect that aspect - so either really quick/deadly combats or lots of talking your way out of trouble. Jailbreaking one or more characters out may become a regular thing. Every time they break somebody out it becomes harder to do the next time, as the jailers learn what not to do.

I could go on, but I'll stop there.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

I could see the whole campaign being more skill-based than combat based because of your initial post saying they need to be stealthy or dead. Well, what happens if they fail a stealth check? Everyone rolls a 1 sooner or later. You don't want to neglect that aspect - so either really quick/deadly combats or lots of talking your way out of trouble. Jailbreaking one or more characters out may become a regular thing. Every time they break somebody out it becomes harder to do the next time, as the jailers learn what not to do.

You may be well on your way to reinventing the old RPG Paranoia, but without the futuristic setting. Just so the average character survives more than 15 minutes, which is what I once read was the average in Paranoia.

Seriously, it sounds like fun, and is definitely the kind of thing I had in mind.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Yeah, but you had lots of clones!

 

[IndyPendant]

One piece of advice I have that might seem obvious, but I have not seen mentioned yet:

If you want a campaign where stealth tactics (skill, magic, or otherwise) are important, and to be used often--make certain to clearly reward the players early and often for successfully completing something stealthy. Carrot too, not just stick! Some examples:

--They manage to avoid a fight with a monster/group of monsters that would easily defeat them, and thus clearly succeed in their mission, where otherwise they would have had to flee and fail.

--They avoid a fight with a group of monsters they could have defeated. Give them the xp as if they had fought the encounter, while emphasizing to them they've gained the xp without using up any resources!

--Tell them where the MacGuffin is, and let the BBEG brag to them off-site about how the guards they've hired are so powerful, no one could defeat them, least of all weaklings such as the PCs! Make him be a total prick about it too, so the PCs hate him. Then start an extended Skill Challenge--with or without Mission Impossible background music--where they sneak in and grab the MacGuffin right out from under the BBEG's noses. Along with a bunch of other ph4t l3wt that they can gleefully use. And then give them a chance to gloat at the BBEG. (This one's a win-win for everyone involved; the party gets one over a hated foe, and you gain an NPC enemy you can use against them anytime!)

And so on, and so forth. My point is, if you don't reward them for using stealthy tactics, most players won't be motivated to use them in the future--particularly if they can still succeed in their mission, or gain greater rewards in loot and xp, by not being stealthy!

--Have fun!

IndyPendant.