D&D 5E Challenging High-Level 5e Characters

[aco175]

I still like 4e recharge powers and powers that go off when bloodied / half HP. It alerts everyone that something changed in the middle of another person's turn and might screw up a plan the players were working on if thy thought the bad guy was not doing anything until after Bob3 was going to have his turn. A dragon's breath attack is one example.

 

[Quickleaf]

Oh, I forgot a good that's more relevant to high-level:

Include interesting uses for player resources specific to the adventure. For example, get the cleric to use Channel Divinity: Turn Undead to repel zombies chained to a gate to open the gate. Another example, include crumbled bridges that can be reassembled with Spell Slots. Another example might be letting a barbarian use Rage to break down an unsturdy wall into a secret room.

This approach is about tapping resources to avoid the "more spells than I could ever cast in 2-3 combats" syndrome, but not merely in a punitive way, rather giving the players more choices to make about their resource usage.

 

[Shiroiken]

Generally speaking, spellcasters (including monsters) are the best way to challenge high level characters. Brute force monsters can do a lot of damage, but unless you get lucky with some critical hits, they peter out before the party does.

The real way to challenge a high level party is to pile on the encounters. IME tier 1 characters can only handle 3-4 medium encounters per long rest, but at tier 3 you should be doing at least 6. At tier 4 you need 8-10 encounters to properly drain off enough resources to be a challenge.

 

[jayoungr]

I like boss monsters with phases--the players defeat one form, and instead of dying then and there, it just changes to the next form.

I had one monster design that I was rather proud of. It was a crystal golem that started glowing as it took damage:

Trait: Crystal Body
For every 1/4 total HP of damage taken, the golem's body begins to glow brighter and brighter. Each creature within 30 feet of the golem with line of sight must make a Constitution saving throw or be blinded for as long as they remain within line of sight and its body is glowing. The difficulty is 13 at 3/4 HP, 16 at 1/2 HP, and 19 at 1/4 HP.

My players complained about not getting saving throws every round, which I thought a bit unfair. The golem had AC 18, and the party was level 13, so they were rocking +10 to hit, not counting special tricks like Bardic Inspiration. It was also a large party, 7-8 players, so even with disadvantage, several of them should have been able to hit each round. I suppose they just didn't like the feeling of depowerment that comes with rolling disadvantage--and that might not be a problem for some tables. I ended up compromising by saying they could get a new saving throw if they ended their turn not within sight of the glowing golem.

The golem also had two magic-resistant minions, but I find that it's often hard to get players to actually fight minions. When they know who the boss is, they usually figure their best strategy is to dogpile the boss, which can lead to anticlimax if the boss goes down and they then have to mop up the minions afterward.

 

[RoughCoronet0]

I've done many things to make my boss monsters more challenging for my players as they have increased in level, introducing one or two such mechanics early on for earlier bosses, then slowly adding more and more as the campaign progresses.

Multiple Boss Phases - Several of my monsters once reaching a certain threshold of hit points lost will change up tactics and unlock different abilities and even change physically, taking inspiration from Mythic feature, bloodied features from 4e, and video game design. One of my favorite multi-phased bosses my group fought was a Corrupted Gold Dragon. The first phase the dragon did fly-by attacks in a hit and run style, or would teleport around the field, using bullet heck tactics. Its attacks weren't as damaging as a normal Dragon of it's CR and it didn't utilize it's multi-attack feature, but forced the party to get a bit creative in closing the distance and trying to keep the dragon from moving around. Once enough damage was done, the second phase caused the dragon to split into four golden drake that could charge and knock prone, bite and toss the PCs into each other or into the waters below the main platform, or grapple PCs and drag them away from the others. They dealt greater melee damage and could gang up on PCs, but didn't have access to the dragon's breath weapons or more magical features. Once all four of the drakes were defeated, the dragon reformed and went into a rage state as it's corruption became fully prominent. The dragon would no longer run or fly around the battlefield, but it was at it's most dangerous with a damaging aura, resistance to ranged attacks and AoEs and a wing buffet that could pull PC's closer to itself and into it's aura and reach of it's bite and corrupt tentacle attacks., not to mention a Breath Weapon that instead of shooting out in a line or cone, would instead burst out 20 feet from itself. It was a lot of fun and kept my players on their toes.

Draining Attacks and Abilities. Something my players have only recently begun to deal with, I use several monsters with the ability to cause temporary Attribute, Speed, Health, Spell Slot, AC, and Attack drain, with mild draining attacks being healed during a long rest and more extreme draining attacks being healed during a short rest. One of the more extreme draining attacks came from my Assassin Crows where whenever they made a talon attack, I would roll a d8 to see which Attribute would be drained by 1d4. Another player got attacked by a Flesh Render who's primary attack in it's multi-attack would lower a PCs AC by 2 on each hit that stacked, which also healed on a short rest. This has definitely given my players a sense of urgency at taking down these threats quickly, despite them never being the big damage dealer on the field.

Auto Damage/Piercing Damage. Another very recent thing that my players have encountered is damage that can't be nullified in any way. This is primarily damage that strikes true whenever a player resists, is immune to, or nullifies damage in some way, and is generally only used by Colossal/Kaiju creatures or god-like creatures. Typically it will simply be a small amount of chip damage, anywhere between 5-10 damage at their current level, and it is untyped, but is meant to represent an unrelenting force that is unlike a typical monster they will battle and is suppose to give a sense of urgency in taking them down or fleeing if necessary, for a prolonged fight will not be in their favor. Later on they will gain artifacts or temporary boons to help mitigate this damage (As that chip damage will increase the closer to lv 20 they get) but for now they are at the mercy of any creature that has this type of damage feature.

More powerful lair actions/environmental and terrain effects. I use a great amount of lair actions that I beef up considerably, allowing for greater support to the Boss monster and it's minions. I'll also add environmental hazards, both natural and supernatural, that cause cause all manner of effects. I typically keep the lair action at Initiative 20 and cause any other effects to take place at the end/beginning of the turn order.

Legendary Actions, Bonus Actions, and Reactions. I tend to be a bit more generous with my legendary monsters and give them around 5 legendary actions, and give them a wider range to choose from. This allows me to spend my 3 points on the big damaging legendary action while still having a couple more points to allow my monster the ability to use its movement legendary action or more standard attack legendary actions. I will also give my monsters more to do during it's turn in combat by adding a few interesting bonus actions, and also providing some reaction features as well.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

Hi, Mike. Big fan.

I've run one campaign past 20th level and one campaign up to 13th level, so I feel your pain. The game changes around 13th level with spells like plane shift and raise dead. I don't think they break encounters so much as they break campaigns. When the villain decapitates a character's little sister, the cleric just shrugs and brings her back to life with a single action spell, the wizard casts feeblemind, and the fighter action surges. Bye bye, villain. Cue sad trombone sound from the DM.

Action economy is key. One of my groups has 3 PCs. Higher level combats are still challenging for them. But for my 5 PC group...they are nigh invulnerable. And I know you play with about 6 characters.

The fix is simple: Monsters need to hit really, really hard. Elite-style monsters should be able to drop 1 character per round, and Solos should drop 2 or 3 characters every round. Anything less won't even get the players' attention.

I have a formula for monster modifications. Basically, as the players level from Tier 1 to Tier 2, and Tier 2 to Tier 3, etc monsters get tougher. Yes, a Tier 1 goblin is tougher than a Tier 3 goblin. Here's how it works...

First, I set a minimum threshold for attack bonus. Tier 1 = +3, Tier 2 = +6, Tier 3 = +9, Tier 4 = +12. I add an additional +3 to Elite and Solo monsters.

Second, I increase damage. For Elite monsters, I take their average damage and multiply it by Tier. For Solo monsters, I take maximum damage and multiply it by Tier. And that's how much they do on every hit, period.

Third, I don't mess with hit points or armor class -- except for Elites and Solos. I take the attack bonus and add that to their AC. For hit points, I multiply them by Tier using the same formula as damage.

Finally, I've developed some additional Legendary Actions that I can apply as needed...

• Legendary Attack: One attack per tier. So a CR17 monster gets at least 4 attacks/per round
• Legendary Reactions: One reaction per tier. A CR17 monster gets up to 4 reactions per turn.
• Legendary Movement: Creatures may take a move action without provoking opportunity attacks at any time during the turn. They may do this a number of times equal to their Tier. This ability refreshes on a long rest.
• Legendary Accuracy: +1 bonus per Tier to all attack rolls. A creature can choose to turn a miss into a hit a number of times equal to their Tier. This ability refreshes on a long rest.
• Legendary Damage: A creature does maximum damage on a hit. They may do this a number of times equal to their Tier. This ability refreshes on a long rest.
• Legendary Critical: Critical range expands by +1 per Tier. So a Tier 4 monster crits on 15-20. Criticals double standard damage (since we are not rolling for damage).
• Legendary Recovery: Creatures may end one condition at the start of their turn. They may do this a number of times equal to their Tier. This ability refreshes on a long rest.
• Legendary Resistance: One resistance per tier. A CR17 monster gets 4 uses of legendary resistance.
• Legendary Defense: A creature can choose to turn a hit into a miss a number of times equal to their Tier. This ability refreshes on a long rest.

 

[Stormonu]

I like the idea of the various Legendary abilities, but I can't say I agree with the rest.

Of course, I don't enjoy playing high level games much anyways.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

Some additional thoughts...

Regarding my above guidance on monsters, there's a few other things I do with encounter design. First, I use standard monsters straight out of the book and mix them with the Elite- and Solo-style monsters. Second, in some instances I take standard monsters and cut their hit points in half. For example, at high level I might take an ogre, cut the hit points in half, but increase attack bonus and damage. Why? Because I want high level fighters to look at a half-dozen CR2 ogres and say, "I got this." Because they do. The problem is that it will take a fighter ages and ages to grind through six 50hp monsters. So I tweak the stats to support the fiction. Third and final, I use Flee Mortals minions.

Basically, depending on the circumstances, some combination of these monster designs allow me to make challenging, interesting combats. It's not easy.

From level 13 onward, I have characters level really fast. In my campaigns, it takes 10-12 sessions to get through Tier 1. I have high level characters advance equally fast. I want them to enjoy the power of high level play, but I don't want to dwell in grindy combats and spells that break the fiction. So level 13 is a sign to begin wrapping things up, quickly.

 

[FrogReaver]

1 encounter on its own should rarely ever be a threat to PCs. Thus the goal is to create challenging environments that can produce a series of encounters that are challenging while providing significant opportunity costs for falling back and resting.

In the encounter level you need a diverse set of enemy abilities which often entails finding narrative reasons that different types of enemies are working together. Its also not just what abilities they bring but changing up their targeting priorities.

An ideal high level enemy force should have a good mix of speed, range, aoe, cc, special abilities and terrain/zone effects they can take advantage of.

Some custom enemies are great so all players still have to account for the unknown.

 

[Distracted DM]

1 encounter on its own should rarely ever be a threat to PCs. Thus the goal is to create challenging environments that can produce a series of encounters that are challenging while providing significant opportunity costs for falling back and resting.

In the encounter level you need a diverse set of enemy abilities which often entails finding narrative reasons that different types of enemies are working together. Its also not just what abilities they bring but changing up their targeting priorities.

An ideal high level enemy force should have a good mix of speed, range, aoe, cc, special abilities and terrain/zone effects they can take advantage of.

Some custom enemies are great so all players still have to account for the unknown.

I think this is great advice for any GM- but are any of these particular to high level characters? The issue with high level characters is their massive resources and abilities to deal with many threats. Their capabilities don't increase gradually, their power curve gets incredibly steeper.