Changing Favored Class and tweaking the PH2 Knight

[Triangleman27]

First post. Hope it's in the right section.

I'm making a draft of house rules for my own campaign and seeking advice.

1. In a metagame sense, is it safe to change the Elf's favored class from Wizard to Sorcerer? The only drawback I can foresee is forcing players to beef up what is generally considered to be a dump stat. The rationale is that I conceive the elves to have a more 'intuitive' approach to magic whereas humans and more 'power-conscious' races would be more 'analytical'.

2. Any suggestions on how to tweak the Knight class from PH2 to something less resembling a videogame character? You see, in my setting Paladins are rare (I'm using the Prestige version from UA) and I need a class to fill the gap in a thematic sense.

3. Is there a viable alternative to penalize multiclassing that does not involve XP?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Aus_Snow]

First post. Hope it's in the right section.

Hi there, welcome to the boards.

edited. . . due to previous insomnia and general malaise. Never mind the response I wrote before.

 

[Arkhandus]

Changing a favored class..... No problem. It's a slight disadvantage for some elves, but no big deal.

Changing the Knight........
Remove the whole challenges-thing they got going on. Replace it with, for example, a limited form of Bardic Music (called Battlecry or something), that can provide the Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness, and maybe Inspire Competence benefits (at appropriate levels and appropriate ranks in Perform - Oratory), and make Perform (Oratory) a class skill (I forget if it is already, or not).

Then add something else to cover the weakness incurred; give them a few specific bonus feats perhaps, from books you own, that you consider to be appropriate replacements for some of the Knight's former abilities. Just 2 or 3 feats should do it, I think; the whole Battlecry thing should be enough to compensate for several of the Knight's challenge abilities.

Removing the penalties for multiclassing....
You could do that, if you wanted to. It will have an impact on balance to some extent, and dipping 1-2 levels or so into different classes for optimizing a munchkin character will be made easier that way.
If you just want to replace the XP penalty with something different, then you might consider just giving characters some minor benefits for not going outside the normal multiclass restrictions.
For example, maybe a character gets a bonus feat for every 5 levels advanced in any given class, so long as they have not gone beyond the normal limit for nonpenalized multiclassing. And perhaps they get a bonus skill point at each level taken in their favored class (regardless of whether or not they multiclass like crazy, since it's less significant and less easily taken away if they violate that restriction later).

 

[Nifft]

The best solutions I've seen are as Arkhandus describes: use a carrot in place of a stick. I think it's the Conan system which grants a PC a bonus feat for every four levels in his favored class -- yes, this means all single-class Humans get a boatload of bonus Feats, but Humans are supposed to rule, right?

You could instead offer +2 skill points or +1 skill point and access to an additional class skill at every level within the PC's favored class. This works nicely if you allow skill tricks.


There's also using a different stick: every class, even every base class, has at least on prerequisite. If it's your first class, you get the pre-req free; if it's not, you must take the pre-req before you're allowed in. From memory, my list was something like...

Barbarian: 4 ranks in one of Climb, Jump or Swim, one of Toughness, Athletic or Alertness
Bard: 4 ranks in Kn:History, one of Persuasive, Negotiator or Magical Aptitude
Cleric: 4 ranks Kn:Religion, Skill Focus (Kn:Religion)
Druid: 4 ranks in Kn:Nature, Skill Focus (Kn:Nature)
Fighter: Weapon Focus
Monk: 4 ranks Concentration, Improved Unarmed Strike
Paladin: 4 ranks Kn:Religion, 4 ranks Ride, Mounted Combat
Ranger: 4 ranks Survival, Track
Rogue: 4 ranks in any 4 Rogue skills, and either Skill Focus (any Rogue skill) or one of the +2/+2 feats which gives a bonus to two Rogue skills
Sorcerer: 4 ranks Kn:Arcana, Dragontouched (from Dragon Magic) or Eschew Materials, or one of the spell-like ability feats from Complete Arcane (like Night Haunt)
Wizard: 4 ranks Spellcraft, Skill Focus (Spellcraft)

This gives everyone an extra (weak) feat at 1st level and a few extra skill points, and that sort-of "compensates" them for needing to spend a feat-slot to qualify for another class.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Dagredhel]

First post. Hope it's in the right section.

First time is the charm. Welcome!

1. In a metagame sense, is it safe to change the Elf's favored class from Wizard to Sorcerer?

Lots of folks do this. It fits one image of elves (beautiful and wild and carefree) very well. No downside I can see.

2. Any suggestions on how to tweak the Knight class from PH2 to something less resembling a videogame character? You see, in my setting Paladins are rare (I'm using the Prestige version from UA) and I need a class to fill the gap in a thematic sense.

Well, it'd be very helpful if you spelled out exactly which abilities remind you of video games (for us old folks who have only seen WoW over our kid's shoulders. )

But that said, here is one idea I've considered:

In 4E speak, the Knight kills the Marshall and takes all of his (cool) stuff.

So, basically you'd have either fighter feats from a narrower list (what the Knight gets plus whatever extra feat choices a non-spellcasting Paladin gets in the splatbooks) or an aura power at each level. Maybe just stagger the advancement.

As a matter of personal preference, I'd somewhat divorce the aura powers from Charisma. (It just doesn't seem to "fit" all of them as well to me.) Instead, I'd divide the auras into three groups, each based on one of the mental abilities. So, powers of inspiration would be Charisma-based, strategy-based auras would rely on Intelligence, and special abilities depending on keen awareness or insight, grit, or indomitable will would be Wisdon-based.("Inspiration" and "Strategy" work for Charisma and Intelligence, but you'd need a cool catch phrase for the Wisdom-based abilities. )

Maybe some basic powers would fall into multiple categories, or particular Knight could choose powers from all three. As a limitation, the bonus might be capped both by level and ability score. (Or maybe the Knight could receive the full ability modifier bonus, but allies would only get the capped bonus.)

Aside from the Marshall auras, you could look to the Warblade to copy the abilities based off on Intelligence bonus.

There was a Dragon Magazine article (I've got it somewhere) that had some great feats for Marshals, too. They could be included either as bonus feat choices or acquired automatically at certain levels. (Maybe you get a few automatically, depending on which type of ability is your "specialty".

Would that kind of approach be of any interest to you? (Or are "aura" powers exactly what you'd prefer to avoid?)

3. Is there a viable alternative to penalize multiclassing that does not involve XP?

Nifft's suggestions rule, but that goes without saying.

Here is another (simple) idea: If you want a race to be "better" at a certain class, give them a +2 bonus to the appropriate attribute. (So, Charisma for elves, in this case.) Give humans the same bonus in any one ability.

 

[Triangleman27]

Well, it'd be very helpful if you spelled out exactly which abilities remind you of video games (for us old folks who have only seen WoW over our kid's shoulders. )

My apologies. I was referring to the "Knight's Challenge" which draws away powerful monsters from weaker party members to fight the knight; emulating a common feature in CRPGs.

I like the idea of integrating the Marshall powers and turning the Knight into a combat-focused version of the Bard.

 

[Nifft]

My apologies. I was referring to the "Knight's Challenge" which draws away powerful monsters from weaker party members to fight the knight; emulating a common feature in CRPGs.

Clerics and Wizards have been telling NPCs what to do since forever -- from spells like command, suggestion, fear and confusion to class features like Turn Undead. Same deal with the Knight.

He's not doing "aggro", because there's no formula to calculate monster targeting -- his effects are all-or-nothing, just like the spells that already exist.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Arkhandus]

Except that the Knight's abilities are nonmagical, which doesn't jive with some folks when they see it doing things that should only be possible with magic, even when stretching believability because it's a fantasy RPG.

Like the stupid Courtier in the Rokugan book, which could basically manipulate enemies' minds easily but without magic, despite performing several effects that could only be done through magic, not mere wordplay and demeanor.

Unless the game is going to embrace that kind of excessive disconnect from reality in all things, it's annoying to have a few things that just don't make sense and aren't even just being abstracted (like HP). There's no abstraction that can account for a Courtier's or Knight's non-magical mind control.

 

[Arkhandus]

I would say that I would accept such things once D&D accepts Fighters resembling Kenshin Himoura, Cloud Strife, Ichigo Kurosaki, and other anime/video game characters.........if not for the fact that 4E seems to be throwing realism and simulationism out the window and doing something like that already. But I hate 4E's rampant gamist focus so I won't say that.

 

[Nifft]

There's no abstraction that can account for a Courtier's or Knight's non-magical mind control.

Of course there is, and you go on to implicitly point it out in your next post: genre simulation rather than reality simulation. It certainly is a kind of simulationism, but it's a literary one rather than one from wargames.

The power of *plot* compels you! Your opponent is me!

Cheers, -- N