So in my quest for a "chaos" fighting style rogue I came across another option. Since I'm CE I can't even take a normal monk level, but Chaos monk is an option. I know monks are considered "teh suck", but a couple of levels seems to help the rogue with saves and a couple extra feats. What I'm not sure about is the feasibility of the combo. Chaos monk gives the "flailing strike" ability in lieu of flurry of blows, and it seems you can wear your armor as normal and still use the ability unlike flurry. Already seems a better choice than standard monk. Then we have ascetic rogue feat that allows both Rogue and Monk levels to continue progression of unarmed damage. So far so good.
Questions come down to the negatives of not using actual weapons at certain levels. Damage wise it seems unarmed strike scales faster than any light weapons a Rogue is able to get their hands on anywhere near those levels. Flailing strike seems a viable option to TWF at lower levels since it can give you up to 4 attacks per round, with a 25% chance of only getting the 1 attack. Seems a better option than the standard TWF always giving you 2. Once your BAB is high enough where you get an iterative attack, then flailing strike probably loses it's luster for the guaranteed 3.
Add in Carmendine monk feat for the monk +2 monk level bonus(unarmed progression) and this sounds even better. Unarmed focus, weapon finesse and ITWF seems to further improve this idea. If I did my math right, a Rogue 8/Chaos Monk 2 with Carmendine monk would have 2d6, same as a greatsword. If you can talk your GM into letting you take Improved Natural Attack, that would increase to 3d8(not sure on how a DM would feel, though I guess it's arguable).
Damage wise I don't see how a Rogue could come close to this kind of weapon damage by that level, but again I could be missing something obvious as I've never played higher level PnP before. Which is why I'm asking the experts
We're playing mostly core, though DM seems ok with variants of the core classes along with some feats from other sources. Campaign is in FR so craven, carmendine monk and other goodies are possible. I would try to talk him into combining Chaos Monk with the UA monk variant styles and getting the one with Weapon Finesse and Combat Initiative at levels 1 and 2. Also could throw in 2 fighter or barb levels for feats/fast movement and rage. Would be something like...
Rogue 1) (TWF), (Craven) SA +1d6
Chaos Monk 1) Impr. Unarmed Strike, Weapon Finesse
Chaos Monk 2) Combat Initiative, (Ascetic Rogue)
Rogue 2) Evasion
Rogue 3) SA +2d6
Fighter 1)(bonus; weap focus; unarmed)(Impr. Natural Weapon)
Rogue 4)Uncanny Dodge
Fighter 2)(power attack)<-- not sure PA is worth it but it is extra damage
Rogue 5)(ITWF)
Rogue 6)
So at level 10 I'd have the unarmed damage of a level 8 monk (1d10), if natural weapon is allowed it'd be (3d6). With craven, str bonus(+2 for me), power attack and +3d6 SA it would do pretty good I'd think. If I stay pure rogue it'd get even higher as I progressed up to a max of 4d8 +7D6 SA at level 20.
What problems would I run into with unarmed versus monsters of that level? I'm guessing DR or the like. If so could I make my unarmed attacks magical(item enchantments?) to overcome DR? I could always keep weapons on me for those circumstances, and rely on unarmed when they're not needed.
At any rate this just seemed like a good way to get some extra feats I already needed and much higher average damage than a pair of short swords. But I'm not sure how it would actually play out in the long run. I rather like the idea of a Rogue sneak attacking with some unarmed attacks.
Questions come down to the negatives of not using actual weapons at certain levels. Damage wise it seems unarmed strike scales faster than any light weapons a Rogue is able to get their hands on anywhere near those levels. Flailing strike seems a viable option to TWF at lower levels since it can give you up to 4 attacks per round, with a 25% chance of only getting the 1 attack. Seems a better option than the standard TWF always giving you 2. Once your BAB is high enough where you get an iterative attack, then flailing strike probably loses it's luster for the guaranteed 3.
Add in Carmendine monk feat for the monk +2 monk level bonus(unarmed progression) and this sounds even better. Unarmed focus, weapon finesse and ITWF seems to further improve this idea. If I did my math right, a Rogue 8/Chaos Monk 2 with Carmendine monk would have 2d6, same as a greatsword. If you can talk your GM into letting you take Improved Natural Attack, that would increase to 3d8(not sure on how a DM would feel, though I guess it's arguable).
Damage wise I don't see how a Rogue could come close to this kind of weapon damage by that level, but again I could be missing something obvious as I've never played higher level PnP before. Which is why I'm asking the experts
We're playing mostly core, though DM seems ok with variants of the core classes along with some feats from other sources. Campaign is in FR so craven, carmendine monk and other goodies are possible. I would try to talk him into combining Chaos Monk with the UA monk variant styles and getting the one with Weapon Finesse and Combat Initiative at levels 1 and 2. Also could throw in 2 fighter or barb levels for feats/fast movement and rage. Would be something like...
Rogue 1) (TWF), (Craven) SA +1d6
Chaos Monk 1) Impr. Unarmed Strike, Weapon Finesse
Chaos Monk 2) Combat Initiative, (Ascetic Rogue)
Rogue 2) Evasion
Rogue 3) SA +2d6
Fighter 1)(bonus; weap focus; unarmed)(Impr. Natural Weapon)
Rogue 4)Uncanny Dodge
Fighter 2)(power attack)<-- not sure PA is worth it but it is extra damage
Rogue 5)(ITWF)
Rogue 6)
So at level 10 I'd have the unarmed damage of a level 8 monk (1d10), if natural weapon is allowed it'd be (3d6). With craven, str bonus(+2 for me), power attack and +3d6 SA it would do pretty good I'd think. If I stay pure rogue it'd get even higher as I progressed up to a max of 4d8 +7D6 SA at level 20.
What problems would I run into with unarmed versus monsters of that level? I'm guessing DR or the like. If so could I make my unarmed attacks magical(item enchantments?) to overcome DR? I could always keep weapons on me for those circumstances, and rely on unarmed when they're not needed.
At any rate this just seemed like a good way to get some extra feats I already needed and much higher average damage than a pair of short swords. But I'm not sure how it would actually play out in the long run. I rather like the idea of a Rogue sneak attacking with some unarmed attacks.
