D&D (2024) Chaosmancer Martial Brews

[Shardstone]

Having a bonus damage die and on certain damage rolls you can trigger a combat art is actually very fun and very clever. Going to steal, experiment, and modify this for myself, thanks!

 

[Chaosmancer]

Having a bonus damage die and on certain damage rolls you can trigger a combat art is actually very fun and very clever. Going to steal, experiment, and modify this for myself, thanks!

No problem, let me know how it goes.

However, I should clarify. The extra die is being added to the d20 in place of your flat proficiency bonus, and it triggers on rolls of that die. I did not affect damage. You absolutely could, but I wanted to avoid increasing damage directly for this iteration.

 

[Faolyn]

Class Changes​

Since I talked about giving the Remarkable Physique ability to martials, let me go ahead and mention a few other changes I’ve been considering.

Not all of these are locked in stone yet, or locked at particular levels, but they do add some flare here and there. These are in addition to the system I will post next.

Barbarians

Sheer Force: You deal double damage to objects and structures (including force constructs). Additionally, your unarmed strikes count as d8 weapons when you are attempting to damage an object, structure, or force construct

I'd move force smash to a higher level than regular smash. Maybe have regular smash at level 4 or 5 and force smash at 9 or higher (or potentially, regular smash at 9 and force smash at 15. Or whatever). I'd also have their unarmed strikes start lower and then increase in power, eventually going up to that barbaric d12.

Punish the Weak: Whenever you hit a creature that does not have its full hitpoints with an attack roll, you may deal an additional 1d6 damage.

I'd switch that to when they're half hp/bloodied. Because it's kind of silly to have them use this against a creature that's down 1 hp.

And, I’ve spent a LOT of time working with crafting rules, so I have a wide variety of alchemical items for rogue’s to utilize. This then creates the ability for them to non-magically copy some of the things caster’s do. Need to blind a crowd of enemies? Throw down a flash bang and dart away in the confusion. Need to slow down the guards? Throw down a web grenade and trap them.

I don't like this. I like the idea, but not the execution. It makes rogues beholden to items, which they can run out of (and then they're outta luck if they run out) and assumes that the DM wants to use alchemical items in their setting, which not all do.

Trickster’s Guile: When you attempt to hide, so long as there is a location within 60 ft of you (that you are aware of) that you can hide within, you are considered hidden no matter the creature’s senses and appear within that location. You may do this three times, regaining all uses on a short rest

This, however, is very thematic.

Battle Stance: On your turn you may choose to enter a battle stance, you concentrate on the stance as though you were concentrating on a spell. If your concentration is broken, you cannot enter another stance for the rest of the combat. If you willingly end a stance on your turn, you may enter another stance during your next turn (you cannot do this the turn you enter a stance).

• Rooted Iron: While you are in this stance every space within reach of a melee weapon you are wielding is considered difficult terrain. If an enemy attempts to pass your space, they must make an athletics (str) or acrobatics (dex) check against your save DC. On a failure, their movement is reduced to zero. If they fail by 5 or more, you can shove them back 5 ft.
• Gleaming Silver: While you are in this stance, when you miss with an attack roll, you deal damage to the target equal to the ability modifier of the attack. This damage cannot be increased by other abilities.
• Bulwark of Will: While you are in this stance, whenever an adjacent ally would be hit by an attack, you can redirect that attack to you instead. Adjacent allies treat you as half cover for dexterity saving throws
• Sky Flash: While you are in this stance, your movement speed is reduced to 5 ft, however, you may re-roll one missed ranged attack. Additionally, your range increases by 10 times your fighter level.
• Coursing River: While you are in this stance, your movement speed is increased by 10 ft, non-magical difficult terrain cannot impede your movement, and magical difficult terrain can be ignored with a successful Dex Save vs the spell DC. Additionally, you have advantage against any effect which would impede movement such as grapple, restrain, slow, or paralyze.

I think it would be possible to make more of these. I mostly wanted to avoid anything that would increase damage directly, and also address weakpoints in the fighter strategies (like the lack of ability to control movement or focus attacks on the fighter)

You may want to look at Level Up's maneuvers, if you haven't already. While you obviously don't need to copy all the maneuvers, you could definitely take some inspiration from the various traditions.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I'd move force smash to a higher level than regular smash. Maybe have regular smash at level 4 or 5 and force smash at 9 or higher (or potentially, regular smash at 9 and force smash at 15. Or whatever). I'd also have their unarmed strikes start lower and then increase in power, eventually going up to that barbaric d12.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean about the level. The Sheer Force ability is starting at level 9, and it is basically just siege monster combined with the ability to hit objects unarmed.

The reason I set the barbarian at d8 against objects was that, if they were to smash a table or something, I didn't think a d4 would be big enough. I could increase it, but I do want them to feel like getting a big hammer is worth their time. Notably, this ability does not apply to hitting a creature (argument for constructs? maybe) because I pretty much always expect them to be armed.

The ability is solely designed for environmental destruction.

I'd switch that to when they're half hp/bloodied. Because it's kind of silly to have them use this against a creature that's down 1 hp.

Silly, but there is precedence. I essentially was copying colossus slayer's trigger. Other than being a bit silly to work against someone missing 1 hp, is there any other reason it shouldn't work?

I don't like this. I like the idea, but not the execution. It makes rogues beholden to items, which they can run out of (and then they're outta luck if they run out) and assumes that the DM wants to use alchemical items in their setting, which not all do.

That is true, not all DMs would find that interesting. I do kind of like it though? It does make rogue's beholden to items to get more from their combats but I'm not planning on removing any rogue abilities, so they will have every single one of their normal abilities + Alchemical Items.

Part of the balance of that, is that they can run out of those items. The mechanical balance conceit is that these will work sort of like bonus action, low level spells, but instead of recharging daily, they may recharge weekly or monthly, depending on the campaign set up.

This, however, is very thematic.

I will admit, partially stolen from LaserLlama.

You may want to look at Level Up's maneuvers, if you haven't already. While you obviously don't need to copy all the maneuvers, you could definitely take some inspiration from the various traditions.

I'd need to find a copy of it. I didn't back the kickstarter.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

I'd need to find a copy of it. I didn't back the kickstarter.

if you want the pdf, you can grab it on drivethrurpg, or you can visit the rules website if you just want the rules.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I don't like this. I like the idea, but not the execution. It makes rogues beholden to items, which they can run out of (and then they're outta luck if they run out) and assumes that the DM wants to use alchemical items in their setting, which not all do.

So I had the same issue. I love alchemy, but using it in D&D means you suddenly get thrown into logistics hell where you have to count bombs and crap plus buy them.

So I cut out the obnoxious stuff from the equation for my Chemical Soldier. They get the ability to just have some at-wills and encounters abilities with the assumption you're making more between encounters. After all we don't sit around watching Batman making smoke pellets or balancing the line items to buy them.

 

[Faolyn]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean about the level. The Sheer Force ability is starting at level 9, and it is basically just siege monster combined with the ability to hit objects unarmed.

I mean, it seems weird that you can start out (at 9th level) being able to smash through magical force fields. It would seem more logical that they get that ability at a later level. Actually being able to smash through regular objects is fine.

The reason I set the barbarian at d8 against objects was that, if they were to smash a table or something, I didn't think a d4 would be big enough. I could increase it, but I do want them to feel like getting a big hammer is worth their time. Notably, this ability does not apply to hitting a creature (argument for constructs? maybe) because I pretty much always expect them to be armed.

The ability is solely designed for environmental destruction.

According to the 5e DMG (just in case they have changed or will change it for 1D&D), a table is probably Medium size and therefore have 4 hp if fragile and 18 if resilient. If you do d4 damage with +3 Strength, you're doing enough damage to smash a typical table on the lowest possible damage roll, even without doubling. With doubling, then on an average d4 damage roll, you could smash a resilient table in two blows--even if the table was made out of adamantine, since material only ups the AC, and objects in 5e don't seem to have hardness. (And even a low-level barbarian, with +5 attack bonus, can hit an AC 23 adamantine table with a good roll).

So, personally speaking, I would be fine with a lower level barbarian needing two blows to smash an adamantine table--or one attack with two fists--and a higher level barbarian only needing one. Especially since the lower-level barb could also just use an axe and cleave that sucker in two with only a better-than-average damage roll.

Silly, but there is precedence. I essentially was copying colossus slayer's trigger. Other than being a bit silly to work against someone missing 1 hp, is there any other reason it shouldn't work?

Nah. Just the silliness.

That is true, not all DMs would find that interesting. I do kind of like it though? It does make rogue's beholden to items to get more from their combats but I'm not planning on removing any rogue abilities, so they will have every single one of their normal abilities + Alchemical Items.

Part of the balance of that, is that they can run out of those items. The mechanical balance conceit is that these will work sort of like bonus action, low level spells, but instead of recharging daily, they may recharge weekly or monthly, depending on the campaign set up.

Fair enough.

I'd need to find a copy of it. I didn't back the kickstarter.

The link takes you to their (legal, free) Tools page, which includes all the info you could need.

 

[Yaarel]

If a force effect has a DC equal to its spellcasting DC, then a Strength Check can push thru it at any tier.

If the Fighter wants to dispel the force effect, that is something different.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I mean, it seems weird that you can start out (at 9th level) being able to smash through magical force fields. It would seem more logical that they get that ability at a later level. Actually being able to smash through regular objects is fine.

Ah! That's because I altered things like Wall of Force first.

This is the current version

An invisible wall of force springs into existence at a point you choose within range. The wall appears in any orientation you choose, as a horizontal or vertical barrier or at an angle. It can be free floating or resting on a solid surface. You can form it into a hemispherical dome or a sphere with a radius of up to 10 feet, or you can shape a flat surface made up of ten 10-foot-by-10-foot panels. Each panel must be contiguous with another panel. In any form, the wall is 1/4 inch thick. It lasts for the duration. If the wall cuts through a creature's space when it appears, the creature is pushed to one side ofthe wall (your choice which side).

Nothing can physically pass through the wall. It is immune to all damage from spells and resistant to damage from magical effects.

Dispel Magic always requires a check with disadvantage to dispell it. A disintegrate spell destroys the wall instantly, however. The wall also extends into the Ethereal Plane, blocking ethereal travel through the wall.

No matter how the wall is formed, the structure has an AC of 18 and 150 hit points, it is not a valid target for sneak attack. It reduces all damage from attacks by 10 points.

I just added the force effect line in Sheer Force because I didn't want someone to go "Well, actually, the ability only lets you damage items, not force constructs" when that goes against my intent.

According to the 5e DMG (just in case they have changed or will change it for 1D&D), a table is probably Medium size and therefore have 4 hp if fragile and 18 if resilient. If you do d4 damage with +3 Strength, you're doing enough damage to smash a typical table on the lowest possible damage roll, even without doubling.

Ah, I would say your typical medieval table would count as resilient. Those things are made from solid lumber.

With doubling, then on an average d4 damage roll, you could smash a resilient table in two blows--even if the table was made out of adamantine, since material only ups the AC, and objects in 5e don't seem to have hardness. (And even a low-level barbarian, with +5 attack bonus, can hit an AC 23 adamantine table with a good roll).

I do disagree with the official stance of increasing AC for the material. I find that to be really unintuitive.

So, personally speaking, I would be fine with a lower level barbarian needing two blows to smash an adamantine table--or one attack with two fists--and a higher level barbarian only needing one. Especially since the lower-level barb could also just use an axe and cleave that sucker in two with only a better-than-average damage roll.

I can see that, but I would use the 18 health for the normal wooden table, and at 9th level, I want it to be shocking if the Barbarian CAN'T shatter the table in a single blow of their fist.

Nah. Just the silliness.

Noted

 

[Azzy]

Fixing Strength and Lifting​

So, going to start with a simpler change, but one that has BIG implications for the game. Lifting, pushing, pulling, ect. There are two major problems with the original lifting rules. 1) Most things aren’t strong enough. 2) There is no guidance on what an athletics check to increase the lift looks like.

Now, I know Enworld, so first I’m going to prove point #1 briefly.

The official rules are Strength score x 15 (double for max) And you end up doubling the weight for every size increase. This is more than enough for most equipment, so why is this a problem?

Because big things are too weak. Take the Hill Giant. With a strength of 21 they can lift: 21 x 15 x 2 x 2 = 1,260 lbs. Now this is nowhere near weak right? Except… read the Hill Giant lore and it mentions they use uprooted trees to fight. Take a gander at a logging company website, and you will see that the average log the size of a person (which is cut down from a full tree’s height) weighs in at approximately 1,500 lbs. Now, a Hill giant isn’t at their max capacity with the 1,260, but they would certainly be unable to swing it around as a weapon without penalties.

Please excuse the pedantry, but.... With a 21 Str and being Huge, a Hill Giant can carry 1,260 lbs., but it can lift 2,520 lbs. Assuming the standard rules (i.e., not using the Variant Encumbrance), the Hill Giant can lift and use anything up to that 2,520 lbs., but anything above 1,260 lbs. will cause the giant's Speed to drop to 5 ft. The Variant Encumbrance is less forgiving.

However, your point remains.

And this continues. Rocs and Tarrasque’s are too weak to even attempt picking up elephants, ect. So, I wanted to fix that problem, and in the process, I ended up creating something interesting for martials too.

The new equation is more complicated, so I made a chart, but I feel that is okay. You end up doing your strength score ^ X, where X is determined by your size category. Then doubling it for your maximum. The exponents are:

Diminutive: ^0.5

Diminutive? 5e doesn't have that as a size category.

Tiny ^1
Small ^1.5
Medium ^2
Large ^2.5
Huge ^3
Gargantuan ^3.5

Yeah, that's something that requires a table because not all calculators can do exponents other the square. That in mind, I made this fore easy reference (I love Excel) to compare the existing rules with your proposed replacement:

So, what kind of ranges does this give us? Well, your average Hill Giant can now lift 9,261 lbs. Plenty to uproot and swing a small tree, or to pick up a rhino and toss it. Which, for a giant, feels about correct.

This also means the mighty Tarrasque, strongest of all monsters, can with some strain, drag 295,770 lbs. That is a cruise liner. Which, for a gargantuan strength 30 beast, makes sense.

Okay, I see that you mean "carrying capacity" when you say "lift". That confused me for a minute.

How does this affect martials? Well, your average martial starts at 16 strength. That is them being able to lift between 256 and 512 lbs, which isn’t much higher than they started with (240 - 480) but scales much faster. Additionally, 500 to 600 lbs? That is a horse. Or a harley-davidson motorcycle, that they can lift and carry.

But if you are playing a creature with the large stature ability, like Goliaths or Orcs? Instead of 480 to 960, they are able to lift 1,000 to 2,000 lbs. Which opens up a lot of utility from just being incredibly strong. I tried it out with an Iron Body Goliath Monk, and they had a blast just from realizing how strong they were.

However, isn’t this just a single solution, didn’t I say there were two problems? Yep. And the second solution is just… setting some DCs.

If you want to push/lift/drag more than your normal maximum amount, then you can roll athletics.

DC 15 = x1.25
DC 20 = x1.50
DC 25 = x2.00

So, you have your normal Strength 16 human fighter, he can drag 512 lbs over his head, and has a +5 at level 1. He needs to roll aside a boulder blocking them in a cave? Well, he now knows that if he rolls a 10 on the check, he can push 640 lbs. 15 on the check? 768 lbs. Nat 20? He can push 1,024 lbs. Not only is this incredibly impressive amounts of strength, but now he can pretty quickly figure out his odds of success at moving the boulder, and if they may need to find a different way, instead of just guessing (both for them and the DM)

Instead of multiplying the carry or lift, you could instead have it increase the characters effective Str for the check:

DC 15 = Str +2
DC 20 = Str +4
DC 25 = Str +6
DC 30 = Str +8

This gets close to your original numbers, but trades calculation for table lookup. Which is worse depends on your POV.

On the whole, I do like your proposals.