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Chapter 3: Combat

barsoomcore

Unattainable Ideal
Okay, FINALLY, here's the Combat section. It's actually pretty small. A quick rundown of most of the changes or notable decisions I've made:

A pilot does not need to use a steer a vessel action during the surprise round.

Attacks of opportunity work normally. Threat ranges that are less than the current grid size are treated as zero. This means that characters aboard a vessel will be able to make melee attacks of opportunity against vessels in their own square.

Flanking likewise works normally. Both of these depend on threatening an area, which is dependent on melee weapons, so for example a fighter plane cannot gain an attack of opportunity against another vessel, nor can two fighter planes gain flanking bonuses against a third.

I made the penalties for flying one-handed as severe as two-weapon fighting penalties. Splitting your attention between flying and doing something else ought to be HARD. Of course if all you want to do is fly normally and drink your coffee, you can do that normally since neither action involves any skill checks. It's only when you're trying tricky stuff that this matters. The Two-Weapon Fighting feat applies, as does Ambidexterity.

Defined three types of weapons: personal, vessel and guided. Guided are really a special case of vessel but they're so different I thought it was easiest to make them a case all their own.

Made vessel hit points act exactly like creature hit points: disabled at 0, failing at -1 to -9, and destroyed at -10. Invented a Repair skill to be used for stopping a failing vessel from degenerating further (analogous to the Heal check for a dying character).

Walked through the Special Attacks section:
No subdual damage, use attack an object to destroy features on vessels, use bull rush for ramming attacks, can't disarm, cleaned up grapple rules and grenade-like weapons, disallowed overruns and trips and noted that an undead pilot who gets turned and fly its vessel away rather than abandon the controls.

Here ya go:

Chapter 3 Vessel Combat
Of course, not everything up in the sky is as peaceful as it looks from the ground. And adventurers being the argumentative sorts that they are, there can be no doubt that sooner or later, and most likely sooner, they will end up striving mightily either to defeat some terrible foe, or escape a cruel trick fate had in store.
At its core, vessel combat is just like character combat. Some of the differences have already been noted above: the concept of facing, the fact that vehicles cannot run or take a double move, altitude and so on. This chapter will describe other differences between vessel combat and character combat. Anything not detailed here operates exactly as described in core rulebook I.

Vessel Combat Basics:
Vessels have hit points and armour classes just like characters and monsters. The basics of vessel combat are the same as for character combat: roll Initiative, make an attack roll, if successful roll damage. Movement was covered in Chapter Two; those rules apply to combat as well as to any other situation.
The Combat sequence on page 118 of the core rulebook I is unchanged for Cosmonomicon vessel combat. That is, all combatants are flat-footed until they act. Those characters unsurprised roll intiative and take a surprise round, and then all other characters roll initiative and the combat begins in earnest, running down through the initiative count until everyone has had a turn for the round. Repeat for each round. Recall that a pilot must take at least one steer a vessel action (a move-equivalent action) each round or lose control of his vessel. This does not include the surprise round -- should the pilot be able to act in that round, he does not need to take a steer a vessel action (though of course he may if he desires).
Attacks of Opportunity: Vessels and the characters upon them can make attacks of opportunity as normal against opposing vessels who pass within their threat ranges. A threat range that is less than the current grid scale is considered zero for purposes of determining attacks of opportunity from one vessel to another.
Vessels that are at different altitudes do not provoke attacks of opportunity from each other.
Flanking: Facing has no effect on flanking rules. If a vessel is threatened by two opponents on opposite side, the vessel is considered flanked and standard penalties and bonuses apply. Note that only melee weapons can threaten a square, and thus only melee weapons are affected by the flanking penalties and bonuses.
Hands: Unless specifically noted in a vessel description, using the Steer a Vessel action to pilot a vessel requires two hands. In addition, if at any point in a round the pilot does not have at least one hand on the controls, the vessel immediately becomes out of control and the pilot must a steer a vessel action in order to regain control of the vessel.
Piloting one-handed is exactly like fighting with two weapons. All penalties apply depending on which hand is used for piloting and which is used for whatever the pilot wishes. The off-hand suffers a -10 and the primary hand suffers a -6 to all checks. That is, if the pilot wishes to fly with her off-hand and use a personal weapon with her primary hand, her Piloting skill checks will suffer a -10 and her attack will suffer a -6, modified by any relevant feats she might have. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity apply to all such penalties.
A pilot who wishes to use one hand for something besides attack still suffers the same penalties, applied to Skill checks or Ability checks as appropriate. Again, feats such as Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting apply.

Weapons:
There are three kinds of weapons in Cosmonomicon rules: personal, vessel and guided. Personal weapons are those entirely under the physical command of a character, such as their sword, their bow, their natural weaponry and so on. Vessel weapons are those mounted upon a vessel and operated by a passenger. Guided weapons are those which can be directed to a target and strike unerringly.
Personal Weapons: A character making an attack with a personal weapon, ranged or melee, rolls her attack roll normally. Note, however, that if the character makes a melee attack against a target that is not moving in parallel to her vessel, she applies the Charge bonus to her attack roll and suffers the Charge penalty to her AC against any similar opponents. A vessel that is a creature (see Chapter Two: Creatures Vs. Vessels) makes attacks as though using personal weapons.
Vessel Weapons: Weapons attached to or otherwise considered a part of a vessel are termed vessel weapons. These may include seige engines mounted on a skyship's deck, laser turrets or good old-fashioned cannons. They may also include melee weapons, claws or blades affixed to the vessel that can be manipulated to attack nearby vessels. Vessel weapons benefit from neither the character's Strength or Dexterity modifiers for the purposes of attack or damage rolls. Instead, each weapon has an Accuracy Modifier that is applied to every attack roll made with that weapon.

Vessel Ranged Attack Roll
d20 + Base Attack Bonus + Vessel Size Modifier + Accuracy Modifier + Range Penalty
Vessel Melee Attack Roll
d20 + Base Attack Bonus + Vessel Size Modifier + Accuracy Modifier

Operating a vessel weapon is a standard action. In order to operate a vessel weapon, the passenger must have access to the weapon's controls. These may be at the weapon itself or some remote location. If vessel controls are built in to the piloting controls, the pilot may make an attack as a standard action.
Vessel weapons vary in the Accuracy Modifiers they provide, the damage they do and the time they take to reload. See specific weapon descriptions for details. All vessel weapons require two hands to operate.
Guided Weapons: A guided weapon is really a special form of vessel weapon, but is described separately due to the special circumstances of its use. When using a guided weapon, the operator makes a ranged touch attack roll against the target (using the Vessel Weapon Ranged Attack Roll described above), ignoring any armour bonus, shield bonus or natural armour bonus. If that attack roll is successful the target must make a Reflex Save against the guided weapon's Save DC or suffer full damage from the weapon. A successful Reflex Save may reduce the damage by half or eliminate it completely, depending on the weapon. Refer to the specific weapon description for details.

Damage and Destruction:
A vessel remains functional as long as it has at least one hit point remaining.
Disabled (0 hit points): When a vessel is reduced to 0 hit points, it is disabled. Any power supply it may posses ceases to function and it must rely on its existing Glide Speed and Manuverability ratings, if it possesses them. If it does not posses a Glide Speed or Manuverability rating, it immediately begins to spiral (see Vessel Conditions, Chapter Two).
Failing (-1 to -9 hit points): A vessel reduced to less than 0 hit points is failing. It immediately loses all power as described above. At the end of each round (starting with the round in which the vessel dropped below 0 hit points) the vessel loses 1 hit point. If a vessel's hit points fall to -10, it is destroyed. This loss of hit points may be stopped by a successful Repair check (DC 15), but the vessel remains disabled.
Destroyed (-10 hit points or lower): When a vessel's hit points drop to -10 or lower, it is immediately destroyed and begins to spiral. The pilot cannot use the Regain Control stunt in order to stop the spiral as the vessel is too damaged to respond to her efforts.
Special Damage Effects: Some vessels or vessel components may cause certain effects at some percentage of hit point loss. Certain power systems, for example may explode and deal damage to the vessel and everyone on it at 50% of total hit points. These effects are detailed in Chapter Five: Vessel Construction.
A vessel's resistances to specific forms of damage, be it energy, magic, damage type or sneak attacks and criticals, are listed with the vessel descriptions.

Special Attacks:
The following changes to standard character combat apply:
Subdual Damage: Vessels always ignore subdual damage. Only normal damage has any effect on a vessel.
Attack an Object: It is possible to direct attacks specifically against a weapon or other feature on a vessel. A vessel feature uses the vessel's armour class, including all modifiers except for size. The feature uses its own size modifier.
Damage taken by a feature is not applied to the total damage take by the vessel. Unless the feature has a hit point rating, the DM may have to calculate the feature's hit points and hardness using the provided material descriptions on page 136 of core rulebook I.
Bull Rush: It is not possible for vessels to bull rush each other, but any pilot may attempt a ramming attack whenever entering a square occupied by other vessels at her altitude. She chooses a single vessel in that square and makes a Piloting skill check against that vessel's AC. If that check is successful, the vessels collide and damage is applied to both vessels as per normal collision damage (see Collisions and Crashing, Chapter Two).
A ramming attack made in conjuction with a successful Dive Attack (see Stunts, Chapter Two) inflicts triple damage on both vessels.
If after a ramming attack the attacking vessel is still capable of movement, it may continue and make further ramming attacks. Only one ramming attack may be made per square entered, however, no matter how many vessels may be currently in that square.
Disarm: It is not possible for vessels to be disarmed, but see "Attack an Object", above.
Grappling: Vessels may grapple if they possess weapons capable of delivering grapple attacks. A creature's natural weapons can be used for grapple attacks, but only vessel weapons described as such can be used for grapple attacks. A vessel weapon uses its Vessel Weapon Attack Roll for grapple checks. The vessel being grappled uses its pilot's Piloting skill check modified by the vessel's Strength modifier.
Vessel weapons may allow for one vessel to grapple another without becoming grappled itself. Yeah it's weird, but think of a tractor beam. In any event, all grappled vessels are unable to move until they manage to escape the grapple.
Grenade-like Weapons: Grenade-like weapons as covered in the core rulebook I are unlikely to deviate further from the target than a single 30-foot square. For these weapons (flasks of acid and alchemists' fire) the attacker makes a melee touch attack. If successful, the target and only the target is struck. If unsuccessful, the attack misses and the weapon plunges harmlessly past. There is no danger of splash damage from these attacks.
Overrun: It is not possible for vessels to overrun each other.
Trip: Trip attacks are ineffective against vessels.
Turning and Rebuking: An undead pilot that is turned will direct its vehicle away from the turning cleric rather than abandon the controls of its vessel.
 

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Wyvern

Explorer
Moving on from chapter 2 to chapter 3:

Threat ranges that are less than the current grid size are treated as zero. This means that characters aboard a vessel will be able to make melee attacks of opportunity against vessels in their own square.
You need to make this latter point clear in the chapter itself. Otherwise, people are likely to interpret a threat range of zero as no threat range.

...if the character makes a melee attack against a target that is not moving in parallel to her vessel, she applies the Charge bonus to her attack roll and suffers the Charge penalty to her AC against any similar.
I really don't see the purpose of this rule. The rules for charging in the PHB are intended to simulate a specific situation, which is not applicable in aerial combat. A fighter standing on the deck of an airship and whacking at another airship with his sword as it passes within reach isn't charging. Also, the rules for dive attacks already cover the closest analagous situation.

When using a guided weapon, the opterator makes a ranged touch attack... ignoring any armour bonus, shield bonus or natural armor bonus.
When you say "shield bonus", I assume you're referring only to physical shields and not magical or technological force fields, right?

The loss of hit points may be stopped by a successful Repair check (DC 15), but the vessel remains disabled.
This brings up the issue of whether to include a Repair skill. BlackJaw was in favor of using the Craft skill to cover repairs, and I conceded the point, but now you're adding the Repair skill back in. We need to come to a consensus on this.

When a vessel's hit points drop to -10 or lower, it is immediately destroyed and begins to spiral. The pilot cannot use the Regain Control stunt in order to stop the spiral as the vessel is too damaged to respond to her efforts.
You need to update this to remove references to spiraling and the Regain Control stunt.

Vessels always ignore subdual damage.
I think this should read "vehicles" (since flying creatures aren't immune to subdual damage).

On a related note, are you plannning on treating vehicles as objects in the sense that they only take half damage from energy attacks and personal ranged weapons?

It is possible to direct attacks specifically against a weapon or other feature on a vessel.
I'd recommend changing "feature" to "component" in this sentence and the ones following.

The feature uses its own size modifier. Damage taken by a feature is not applied to the total damage taken by the vessel.
Does this mean that BlackJaw is going to have to include size and hit points in his component descriptions? What about components that are spread througout a vehicle (such as life support)?

It is not possible for vessels to bull rush each other, but any pilot may attempt a ramming attack.... She chooses a single vessel in that square and makes a Piloting skill check against that vessel's AC.
Shouldn't this be touch AC? If armor doesn't protect you against an accidental collision, it shouldn't protect you against a deliberate one either.

Somewhere in here we need to include rules for critical hits on vehicles (since we all seem to agree that they should be vulnerable to them). A chart of possible effects would be more interesting than just applying extra damage. We also need to address the effects of a hull breach in water or vacuum, and what might cause one (e.g. crash-landing, critical hit, limpet mine, piercing ram, going to negative hit points).

Wyvern
 

barsoomcore

Unattainable Ideal
Wyvern said:
Threat ranges that are less than the current grid size are treated as zero. This means that characters aboard a vessel will be able to make melee attacks of opportunity against vessels in their own square.
You need to make this latter point clear in the chapter itself. Otherwise, people are likely to interpret a threat range of zero as no threat range.
Done.
...if the character makes a melee attack against a target that is not moving in parallel to her vessel, she applies the Charge bonus to her attack roll and suffers the Charge penalty to her AC against any similar.
I really don't see the purpose of this rule.
Agreed. It's gone.
When using a guided weapon, the opterator makes a ranged touch attack... ignoring any armour bonus, shield bonus or natural armor bonus.
When you say "shield bonus", I assume you're referring only to physical shields and not magical or technological force fields, right?
That was the idea, but what I had thought was that "shield bonus" was a particular type of bonus. I will remove the reference since it seems that "shield bonus" is a subset of "armour bonus".
The loss of hit points may be stopped by a successful Repair check (DC 15), but the vessel remains disabled.
This brings up the issue of whether to include a Repair skill. BlackJaw was in favor of using the Craft skill to cover repairs, and I conceded the point, but now you're adding the Repair skill back in. We need to come to a consensus on this.
Not in fact adding, just duplicating from a previous version of the rules. The reference is changed to Craft.
When a vessel's hit points drop to -10 or lower, it is immediately destroyed and begins to spiral. The pilot cannot use the Regain Control stunt in order to stop the spiral as the vessel is too damaged to respond to her efforts.
You need to update this to remove references to spiraling and the Regain Control stunt.
Done.
Vessels always ignore subdual damage.
I think this should read "vehicles" (since flying creatures aren't immune to subdual damage).
Done.
On a related note, are you plannning on treating vehicles as objects in the sense that they only take half damage from energy attacks and personal ranged weapons?
This should be covered in vessel descriptions. Vessels that are objects ought to be treated as object. Vessels will have descriptors like "undead", "contructs" or "humanoid" just like creatures will.
It is possible to direct attacks specifically against a weapon or other feature on a vessel.
I'd recommend changing "feature" to "component" in this sentence and the ones following.
I don't see the need.
The feature uses its own size modifier. Damage taken by a feature is not applied to the total damage taken by the vessel.
Does this mean that BlackJaw is going to have to include size and hit points in his component descriptions? What about components that are spread througout a vehicle (such as life support)?
One reason to use the word "feature" rather than "component". This does need to be made more clear. I'll contemplate.
It is not possible for vessels to bull rush each other, but any pilot may attempt a ramming attack.... She chooses a single vessel in that square and makes a Piloting skill check against that vessel's AC.
Shouldn't this be touch AC? If armor doesn't protect you against an accidental collision, it shouldn't protect you against a deliberate one either.
Agreed.
Somewhere in here we need to include rules for critical hits on vehicles (since we all seem to agree that they should be vulnerable to them).
I disagree. Such information should be contained within the vessel description. Since we cannot predict the kinds of vessels users might create, we should isolate that information with the vessels we create, not enclose it in the general combat system.
A chart of possible effects would be more interesting than just applying extra damage.
And lots more work, and again, applicable to specific vessel designs. I agree that this would be good material to have, but it does not belong in the Combat section. The Monster Manual describes the effects of critical hits and so on on creatures and so our "Vessel Volume" (or section or chapter or whatever) ought to be where we keep that information for this system.
We also need to address the effects of a hull breach in water or vacuum, and what might cause one (e.g. crash-landing, critical hit, limpet mine, piercing ram, going to negative hit points).
Again I disagree. Such information belongs in either the vessel descriptions ("At 50% hit points, these vessel suffer a hull breach") or in the environment descriptions ("Exposure to vacuum causes blah blah blah"). Not in combat.
 

barsoomcore

Unattainable Ideal
Revised Combat rules. Notable changes:

Added further text to be clear on threat ranges of zero.
Removed the "automatic charge" rule and references to shield bonus, Repair skill and Regain Control stunt.
Noted that vehicles only are immune to subdual damage.
Changed reference in "Attack an Object" to component rather than feature -- I do see the need. We are now talking only about Vessel Components of the sort that BlackJaw has defined. So Component means something very specific. Added note that only Components which possess a hit point value can be targetted.
The ramming attack rules now state that the ramming pilot makes a Piloting check against the target vessel's touch AC.

Here ya are:
Chapter 3 Vessel Combat
Of course, not everything up in the sky is as peaceful as it looks from the ground. And adventurers being the argumentative sorts that they are, there can be no doubt that sooner or later, and most likely sooner, they will end up striving mightily either to defeat some terrible foe, or escape a cruel trick fate had in store.
At its core, vessel combat is just like character combat. Some of the differences have already been noted above: the concept of facing, the fact that vehicles cannot run or take a double move, altitude and so on. This chapter will describe other differences between vessel combat and character combat. Anything not detailed here operates exactly as described in core rulebook I.

Vessel Combat Basics:
Vessels have hit points and armour classes just like characters and monsters. The basics of vessel combat are the same as for character combat: roll Initiative, make an attack roll, if successful roll damage. Movement was covered in Chapter Two; those rules apply to combat as well as to any other situation.
The Combat sequence on page 118 of the core rulebook I is unchanged for Cosmonomicon vessel combat. That is, all combatants are flat-footed until they act. Those characters unsurprised roll intiative and take a surprise round, and then all other characters roll initiative and the combat begins in earnest, running down through the initiative count until everyone has had a turn for the round. Repeat for each round. Recall that a pilot must take at least one steer a vessel action (a move-equivalent action) each round or lose control of his vessel. This does not include the surprise round -- should the pilot be able to act in that round, he does not need to take a steer a vessel action (though of course he may if he desires).
Attacks of Opportunity: Vessels and the characters upon them can make attacks of opportunity as normal against opposing vessels who pass within their threat ranges. A threat range that is less than the current grid scale is considered zero for purposes of determining attacks of opportunity from one vessel to another. That is, any vessel or character with a threat range that is less than the current grid scale only threatens the squares it currently occupies, but it DOES threaten that square. Any targets within that square are within that vessel or character's threat range, and may provoke attacks of opportunity from it.
Vessels that are at different altitudes do not provoke attacks of opportunity from each other.
Flanking: Facing has no effect on flanking rules. If a vessel is threatened by two opponents on opposite sides, the vessel is considered flanked and standard penalties and bonuses apply. Note that only melee weapons can threaten a square, and thus only melee weapons are affected by the flanking penalties and bonuses.
Hands: Unless specifically noted in a vessel description, using the Steer a Vessel action to pilot a vessel requires two hands. In addition, if at any point in a round the pilot does not have at least one hand on the controls, the vessel immediately becomes out of control and the pilot must use a steer a vessel action in order to regain control of the vessel.
Piloting one-handed is exactly like fighting with two weapons. All penalties apply depending on which hand is used for piloting and which is used for whatever the pilot wishes. The off-hand suffers a -10 and the primary hand suffers a -6 to all checks. That is, if the pilot wishes to fly with her off-hand and use a personal weapon with her primary hand, her Piloting skill checks will suffer a -10 and her attack will suffer a -6, modified by any relevant feats she might have. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity apply to all such penalties.
A pilot who wishes to use one hand for something besides attack still suffers the same penalties, applied to Skill checks or Ability checks as appropriate. Again, feats such as Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting apply.

Weapons:
There are three kinds of weapons in Cosmonomicon rules: personal, vessel and guided. Personal weapons are those entirely under the physical command of a character, such as their sword, their bow, their natural weaponry and so on. Vessel weapons are those mounted upon a vessel and operated by a passenger. Guided weapons are those which can be directed to a target and strike unerringly.
Personal Weapons: A character making an attack with a personal weapon, ranged or melee, rolls her attack roll normally. A vessel that is a creature (see Chapter Two: Creatures Vs. Vessels) makes attacks as though using personal weapons.
Vessel Weapons: Weapons attached to or otherwise considered a part of a vessel are termed vessel weapons. These may include seige engines mounted on a skyship's deck, laser turrets or good old-fashioned cannons. They may also include melee weapons, claws or blades affixed to the vessel that can be manipulated to attack nearby vessels. Vessel weapons benefit from neither the character's Strength or Dexterity modifiers for the purposes of attack or damage rolls. Instead, each weapon has an Accuracy Modifier that is applied to every attack roll made with that weapon.

Vessel Ranged Attack Roll
d20 + Base Attack Bonus + Vessel Size Modifier + Accuracy Modifier + Range Penalty
Vessel Melee Attack Roll
d20 + Base Attack Bonus + Vessel Size Modifier + Accuracy Modifier

Operating a vessel weapon is a standard action. In order to operate a vessel weapon, the passenger must have access to the weapon's controls. These may be at the weapon itself or some remote location. If vessel controls are built in to the piloting controls, the pilot may make an attack as a standard action.
All vessel weapons are mounted on the vessel so as to provide a particular firing arc. A firing arc is a cone that spreads from one side or another of a vessel (front, left, right and rear) and denotes the available targetting field for that weapon. A vessel weapon cannot fire at any target that is not within its firing arc.
Vessel weapons vary in the Accuracy Modifiers they provide, the damage they do and the time they take to reload. See specific weapon descriptions for details. All vessel weapons require two hands to operate.
Guided Weapons: A guided weapon is really a special form of vessel weapon, but is described separately due to the special circumstances of its use. When using a guided weapon, the operator makes a ranged touch attack roll against the target (using the Vessel Weapon Ranged Attack Roll described above), ignoring any armour bonus or natural armour bonus. If that attack roll is successful the target must make a Reflex Save against the guided weapon's Save DC or suffer full damage from the weapon. A successful Reflex Save may reduce the damage by half or eliminate it completely, depending on the weapon. Refer to the specific weapon description for details.

Damage and Destruction:
A vessel remains functional as long as it has at least one hit point remaining.
Disabled (0 hit points): When a vessel is reduced to 0 hit points, it is disabled. Any power supply it may posses ceases to function and it must rely on its existing Glide Speed and Manuverability ratings, if it possesses them. If it does not posses a Glide Speed or Manuverability rating, it immediately begins to spiral (see Vessel Conditions, Chapter Two).
Failing (-1 to -9 hit points): A vessel reduced to less than 0 hit points is failing. It immediately loses all power as described above. At the end of each round (starting with the round in which the vessel dropped below 0 hit points) the vessel loses 1 hit point. If a vessel's hit points fall to -10, it is destroyed. This loss of hit points may be stopped by a successful skill check of the appropriate Craft (DC 15), but the vessel remains disabled.
Destroyed (-10 hit points or lower): When a vessel's hit points drop to -10 or lower, it is immediately destroyed and begins to plummet. The pilot cannot use their Piloting skill in order to stop the plummet as the vessel is too damaged to respond to her efforts.
Special Damage Effects: Some vessels or vessel components may cause certain effects at some percentage of hit point loss. Certain power systems, for example may explode and deal damage to the vessel and everyone on it at 50% of total hit points. These effects are detailed in Chapter Five: Vessel Construction.
A vessel's resistances to specific forms of damage, be it energy, magic, damage type or sneak attacks and criticals, are listed with the vessel descriptions.

Special Attacks:
The following changes to standard character combat apply:
Subdual Damage: Vehicles always ignore subdual damage. Only normal damage has any effect on a vessel. Creatures may or may not be subject to subdual damage. Refer to the creature's description.
Attack an Object: It is possible to direct attacks specifically against a weapon or other component on a vessel. Any vessel component that has its own hit point value can be subject to a specific attack (See Vessel Components, Chapter Four). The component uses the vessel's armour class, including all modifiers except for size. The feature uses its own size modifier.
Damage taken by a component is not applied to the total damage taken by the vessel, nor do the component's hit points add to the vessel's total hit points.
Bull Rush: It is not possible for vessels to bull rush each other, but any pilot may attempt a ramming attack whenever entering a square occupied by other vessels at her altitude. She chooses a single vessel in that square and makes a Piloting skill check against that vessel's touch AC. If that check is successful, the vessels collide and damage is applied to both vessels as per normal collision damage (see Collisions and Crashing, Chapter Two).
A ramming attack made in conjuction with a successful Dive Attack (see Stunts, Chapter Two) inflicts triple damage on both vessels.
If after a ramming attack the attacking vessel is still capable of movement, it may continue and make further ramming attacks. Only one ramming attack may be made per square entered, however, no matter how many vessels may be currently in that square.
Disarm: It is not possible for vessels to be disarmed, but see "Attack an Object", above.
Grappling: Vessels may grapple if they possess weapons capable of delivering grapple attacks. A creature's natural weapons can be used for grapple attacks, but only vessel weapons described as such can be used for grapple attacks. A vessel weapon uses its Vessel Weapon Attack Roll for grapple checks. The vessel being grappled uses its pilot's Piloting skill check modified by the vessel's Strength modifier.
Vessel weapons may allow for one vessel to grapple another without becoming grappled itself. Yeah it's weird, but think of a tractor beam. In any event, all grappled vessels are unable to move until they manage to escape the grapple.
Grenade-like Weapons: Grenade-like weapons as covered in the core rulebook I are unlikely to deviate further from the target than a single 30-foot square. For these weapons (flasks of acid and alchemists' fire) the attacker makes a melee touch attack. If successful, the target and only the target is struck. If unsuccessful, the attack misses and the weapon plunges harmlessly past. There is no danger of splash damage from these attacks.
Overrun: It is not possible for vessels to overrun each other.
Trip: Trip attacks are ineffective against vessels.
Turning and Rebuking: An undead pilot that is turned will direct its vehicle away from the turning cleric rather than abandon the controls of its vessel.
 

BlackJaw

First Post
The term "Vessel weapon" should probably be Vehilce weapon, as a dragon's claws are "vessel weapons" but use a difrent attack calculation. (Dragons get to use their STR modifier for attack and damage scores, for example)

This change also makes some other comments clearer:
Grappling: Vessels may grapple if they possess weapons capable of delivering grapple attacks. A creature's natural weapons can be used for grapple attacks, but only vehicle weapons described as such can be used for grapple attacks. A vehicle weapon uses its Vehicle Weapon Attack Roll for grapple checks. The vessel being grappled uses its pilot's Piloting skill check modified by the vessel's Strength modifier.
Vehicle weapons may allow for one vessel to grapple another without becoming grappled itself. Yeah it's weird, but think of a tractor beam. In any event, all grappled vessels are unable to move until they manage to escape the grapple.
 

barsoomcore

Unattainable Ideal
BlackJaw said:
The term "Vessel weapon" should probably be Vehilce weapon, as a dragon's claws are "vessel weapons" but use a difrent attack calculation. (Dragons get to use their STR modifier for attack and damage scores, for example)
Once again we stumble over the notions of vessels and vehicles.

A dragon's claws are NOT vessel weapons. Vessel weapons, however, are not restricted to vehicles. Or at least I don't see any reason for them to be. Why couldn't you mount a laser cannon on a dragon's back?

A vessel weapon is any weapon mounted on a vessel that requires crew to operate. So if the vessel is a creature, the creature's attacks are NOT vessel weapons and thus are unaffected by vessel weapon rules.

Vehicles don't actually take actions or make attacks -- this needs to be made clear in the rules. It is the pilots and crewmembers who do this. Whereas a creature gets its own Initiative and actions, along with those of everyone aboard.

Hm. Rewrites needed both to this and Chapter Two. Sigh.
 

BlackJaw

First Post
ok, I'm a little slow at times, but I'm getting it now.

Vessel weapon. As in a dragon is a vessel because it has controlled flight... and under the rules a dragon can have a laser gun mounted/strapped to its back and a little kobold servant operating it... complete with power needs, firing arcs, etc. Good. the system is adaptable.
 

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