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Chapter 4: Vehilce Creation (+ part list!)
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<blockquote data-quote="barsoomcore" data-source="post: 450662" data-attributes="member: 812"><p>Please indicate which bits you're having difficulty with. Ease of use is critical.</p><p></p><p>None of this stuff fits with anything already created -- that's five chapters' worth of material. Are you saying your ideas are so much better that we should throw out all the work we've done so far?</p><p></p><p>I don't think these ideas are that much better.</p><p></p><p>I thought the goal of this project was to create a set of aerospatial movement and combat rules to enable d20 GMs to incorporate flying/spacefaring vessels into their campaigns. I do not agree that this goal requires creating a whole new set of attributes. I'm very surprised to see this being presented.</p><p></p><p>Vehicles don't roll Initiative. Why would they? Did you note in the post directly above yours that I wrote: <em>The vehicle doesn't roll Initiative, the pilot does</em>? Please, read before you post.</p><p></p><p>Incorrect. Please refer to earlier parts of this thread, the thread on Chapter2 and BlackJaw's thread on Intelligent vehicles. </p><p></p><p>Well right now we have vessel stats <em>IDENTICAL</em> to monster stats so how much more similar do you want?</p><p></p><p>Once again I have to ask -- have you read the existing material? Our current rules are intended to cover all these situations. Please point out how your suggestions are improvements to what we currently have.</p><p></p><p>And explain why we need these subtypes, please.</p><p></p><p>I thought you wanted things to be similar to monster stats so why change all this needlessly?</p><p></p><p>Look, I know it can be difficult to draw rules out of ongoing discussion threads so here's the basics of what's being proposed for vessel creation:</p><p></p><p>A Vessel type modifier can be applied to any creature type. The Vessel type modifier allows the vessel to acquire Vessel Components -- like mounted weapons, cargo holds, control systems, power systems, engines and so on. A list of these is provided, along with rules on how to apply them.</p><p></p><p>A Vehicle type modifier can be applied to any Aberration, Construct, Plant or Undead creature that also has the Vessel Type modifier. A vehicle has no Dexterity and cannot take a double move or a run action.</p><p></p><p>Under these ideas, a 747 is a Construct with both the Vessel and Vehicle type modifiers. A red dragon with a laser turret on its back is a Dragon with a Vessel type modifier.</p><p></p><p>There's still things to be worked out with these approaches but these fit with everything we've done so far and I believe (and I think Blackjaw and Wyvern do too, but I won't speak for them) that we can find clean and elegant solutions to the existing problems. I don't think this is needlessly complicated (as BlackJaw said, it can be like creating a 20th-level character, so some complexity is necessary. It's also very much like creating a brand new monster -- if you want to follow the rules it's complicated. It just is.</p><p></p><p>But replacing all the standard D&D ability stats? Why bother?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="barsoomcore, post: 450662, member: 812"] Please indicate which bits you're having difficulty with. Ease of use is critical. None of this stuff fits with anything already created -- that's five chapters' worth of material. Are you saying your ideas are so much better that we should throw out all the work we've done so far? I don't think these ideas are that much better. I thought the goal of this project was to create a set of aerospatial movement and combat rules to enable d20 GMs to incorporate flying/spacefaring vessels into their campaigns. I do not agree that this goal requires creating a whole new set of attributes. I'm very surprised to see this being presented. Vehicles don't roll Initiative. Why would they? Did you note in the post directly above yours that I wrote: [i]The vehicle doesn't roll Initiative, the pilot does[/i]? Please, read before you post. Incorrect. Please refer to earlier parts of this thread, the thread on Chapter2 and BlackJaw's thread on Intelligent vehicles. Well right now we have vessel stats [i]IDENTICAL[/i] to monster stats so how much more similar do you want? Once again I have to ask -- have you read the existing material? Our current rules are intended to cover all these situations. Please point out how your suggestions are improvements to what we currently have. And explain why we need these subtypes, please. I thought you wanted things to be similar to monster stats so why change all this needlessly? Look, I know it can be difficult to draw rules out of ongoing discussion threads so here's the basics of what's being proposed for vessel creation: A Vessel type modifier can be applied to any creature type. The Vessel type modifier allows the vessel to acquire Vessel Components -- like mounted weapons, cargo holds, control systems, power systems, engines and so on. A list of these is provided, along with rules on how to apply them. A Vehicle type modifier can be applied to any Aberration, Construct, Plant or Undead creature that also has the Vessel Type modifier. A vehicle has no Dexterity and cannot take a double move or a run action. Under these ideas, a 747 is a Construct with both the Vessel and Vehicle type modifiers. A red dragon with a laser turret on its back is a Dragon with a Vessel type modifier. There's still things to be worked out with these approaches but these fit with everything we've done so far and I believe (and I think Blackjaw and Wyvern do too, but I won't speak for them) that we can find clean and elegant solutions to the existing problems. I don't think this is needlessly complicated (as BlackJaw said, it can be like creating a 20th-level character, so some complexity is necessary. It's also very much like creating a brand new monster -- if you want to follow the rules it's complicated. It just is. But replacing all the standard D&D ability stats? Why bother? [/QUOTE]
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