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Chapter 4: Vehilce Creation (+ part list!)
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<blockquote data-quote="BlackJaw" data-source="post: 451228" data-attributes="member: 888"><p>Anyways: in response to Barsoomcore's last response to my questions (IE: before Sidran's first post)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Ok, Dexterity and realted bonuses to AC do not aply to vehilces. fine. It makes sense for vehicles to generaly fly wihout ducking or weaving unless the pilot puts some effort into it. Because Dexterity (generaly) applies to Piloting skill checks, and that applies to the Stunt, A pilot with better Dexterity is still harder to hit this way.</p><p></p><p> Because you can just as easily argue that the dodge feat is a character focusing his/her attention on one threat and actively attempting to avoid attacks from that source. Also; one of the goals from this project is for a fun playable set of rules to come out of it. Letting players use things their characters may already have, incluidng feats that seem aplicable, makes it more playable... on the other hand, the Dodge feat gives a dodge bonus to AC, and I'm not sure I wanted to allow all "dodge" bonuses to AC. hmm we need to look at this AC/Reflex save/Pilot's Dexterity thing a bit more.</p><p></p><p> Insight is a type of modifier. Example: True strike (the spell) gives an insight bonus to Attack. Off the top of my head I don't know what gives insight bonuses to AC, but I have seen it done, and I know that some players/DM make magic items that apply Insight bonuses to attacks, etc. I could have just as easily asked this question about other armor class modifiers. not all of them are armor sitting on a player/etc. I figure most don't apply to a vehicle via the pilot, But some might. Insight is a good example. A bad example would be so called unamed bonuses. Ug... </p><p></p><p> I was just thinking about the playability of difrent character classes as pilots. Before I was unde the impression that a Vehicle should use the pilot's dex modifier, and therefore the monk (who gets wisdom and dex) would get to add in wisdom as well. Your view (which I'm taking on now) is that Dex doesn't apply at all, so therefore the monk gets no bonus from wis either. That works fine.</p><p></p><p> This becomes basicaly the only thing left of a vehicle that is determiend by the pilot's score instead of set by the vehicle. Oh, and I've been thinking about this some more, and I feel that instead of the handling modifier (a measurement of how easy it is to fly the vehicle, not its abilty to manuver) we should possibly use it's "turn modifier" which comes directly from a vehicle's manuverability... I do see how this seems clunky though.</p><p></p><p> About your "balloon" refrence... are we talking about a normal hot air balloon... the kind with no propulsion system? The kind that you don't control the flight of but instead drift with the wind and can only manipulate vertical control? I'm not sure a balloon with no engine/sails & rigging/etc counts as a vessel. It doesn't have controlled flight. Now if you add on some propper sails, or propellers with rudders/etc then you get some sort of controled flight. Under that set of rules a pilots ability to react to special threat (reflex saves are for special attacks like guided missiles and dragon's breath) would seem to be his own reaction time (IE throwing on the breaks before you run over that deer in the road) and the vehicle's ability to be controlled (IE: the breaks working). Keep in mind that Reflex saves under D20 are a little odd as you don't actualy move out of the way of the effect. Also remember that many reflex saves are for half damage. This question is also realted to the question of if Character class powers (like thoe of the rogue) apply to their vehicles... can a mid-high level rogue take no damage isntead just half... and later on half damage even on a fail?</p><p></p><p> I think I'll branch this topic out into a new post along with pilot reflex saves. This thread is getting split up a lot.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BlackJaw, post: 451228, member: 888"] Anyways: in response to Barsoomcore's last response to my questions (IE: before Sidran's first post) Ok, Dexterity and realted bonuses to AC do not aply to vehilces. fine. It makes sense for vehicles to generaly fly wihout ducking or weaving unless the pilot puts some effort into it. Because Dexterity (generaly) applies to Piloting skill checks, and that applies to the Stunt, A pilot with better Dexterity is still harder to hit this way. Because you can just as easily argue that the dodge feat is a character focusing his/her attention on one threat and actively attempting to avoid attacks from that source. Also; one of the goals from this project is for a fun playable set of rules to come out of it. Letting players use things their characters may already have, incluidng feats that seem aplicable, makes it more playable... on the other hand, the Dodge feat gives a dodge bonus to AC, and I'm not sure I wanted to allow all "dodge" bonuses to AC. hmm we need to look at this AC/Reflex save/Pilot's Dexterity thing a bit more. Insight is a type of modifier. Example: True strike (the spell) gives an insight bonus to Attack. Off the top of my head I don't know what gives insight bonuses to AC, but I have seen it done, and I know that some players/DM make magic items that apply Insight bonuses to attacks, etc. I could have just as easily asked this question about other armor class modifiers. not all of them are armor sitting on a player/etc. I figure most don't apply to a vehicle via the pilot, But some might. Insight is a good example. A bad example would be so called unamed bonuses. Ug... I was just thinking about the playability of difrent character classes as pilots. Before I was unde the impression that a Vehicle should use the pilot's dex modifier, and therefore the monk (who gets wisdom and dex) would get to add in wisdom as well. Your view (which I'm taking on now) is that Dex doesn't apply at all, so therefore the monk gets no bonus from wis either. That works fine. This becomes basicaly the only thing left of a vehicle that is determiend by the pilot's score instead of set by the vehicle. Oh, and I've been thinking about this some more, and I feel that instead of the handling modifier (a measurement of how easy it is to fly the vehicle, not its abilty to manuver) we should possibly use it's "turn modifier" which comes directly from a vehicle's manuverability... I do see how this seems clunky though. About your "balloon" refrence... are we talking about a normal hot air balloon... the kind with no propulsion system? The kind that you don't control the flight of but instead drift with the wind and can only manipulate vertical control? I'm not sure a balloon with no engine/sails & rigging/etc counts as a vessel. It doesn't have controlled flight. Now if you add on some propper sails, or propellers with rudders/etc then you get some sort of controled flight. Under that set of rules a pilots ability to react to special threat (reflex saves are for special attacks like guided missiles and dragon's breath) would seem to be his own reaction time (IE throwing on the breaks before you run over that deer in the road) and the vehicle's ability to be controlled (IE: the breaks working). Keep in mind that Reflex saves under D20 are a little odd as you don't actualy move out of the way of the effect. Also remember that many reflex saves are for half damage. This question is also realted to the question of if Character class powers (like thoe of the rogue) apply to their vehicles... can a mid-high level rogue take no damage isntead just half... and later on half damage even on a fail? I think I'll branch this topic out into a new post along with pilot reflex saves. This thread is getting split up a lot. [/QUOTE]
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