Character Creation in Low Magic Games

[HoboGod]

You'll probably have to re-write every other encounter to account for the diminished firepower of the caster. (this includes the duration of buffs for your non-casters. They get screwed too this way) and you still have an unbalanced game.

Ehhh, in my DMing experience, I've concluded that the Challenge Ratings, Party Levels, and Encounter Levels are BY NO WAY an exact science. I doubt I need to re-balance anything, nothing is balanced to begin with.

Haste, Polymorph, Bless, Lesser Restoration, Restoration, Greater Restoration, Hero's Feast, Resist Energy, Protection from Energy, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Reincarnate, Raise Dead, Resurrection, Heal.

These spells (off the top of my head, there are obviously more) will be either available at a later level than normal, or not at all. This is going to be a serious problem if your non-deathwarded party faces something that deals in negative energy, even if you deal OVER NINE THOUSAND DPS. Without proper defenses, the party's just a bunch of glass cannons.

I don't see that as a problem. If someone sucks it up and takes every level in a spell casting class then they'll get those spells just fine. You know just as well as anyone else how wizards and clerics get to do it all where bards and rogues have to give up some of their effectiveness for versatility.

I prefer the "can't have more than half your levels in a casting class" approach. Seems more elegant.

Me too. I'm still trying to work out the kinks to make it more elegant, but I don't want to eliminate higher level spells.

 

[Dandu]

I don't see that as a problem. If someone sucks it up and takes every level in a spell casting class then they'll get those spells just fine. You know just as well as anyone else how wizards and clerics get to do it all where bards and rogues have to give up some of their effectiveness for versatility.

How does someone with a CL of 10 cast Hero's Feast?

 

[HoboGod]

I'm sorry, I guess I didn't clarify very well. A full caster retains their highest level spells and all their spells per day, but beyond 1/2 their HD, they take penalties to cast their spells. For example, a Halfling Cleric 12 may cast Hero's Feast, a 6th level spell, but they cast this spell as with -6 caster level and the spell's DC (if it had one) is effectively 3 lower. The feast can be used on 6 creatures instead of 12 and provides all of the benefits of Heroes feast, but only grants 1d8+3 temporary hit points instead of 1d8+6 temporary hit points.

 

[prosfilaes]

All I want to say is that "gish" is a term for a githyanki or githzerai fighter/mage, and the term is horribly misused a lot and it makes me sad.

That is all.

Actually, according to the Merriam-Webster Online, Gish means "Lillian Diana 1893–1993 Am. actress". Wiktionary defines it as "(role-playing games) A magician, or character that is skilled in both physical combat and the use of magic. Most gish characters use their magical abilities to increase their own personal combat abilities (known as "buffing")." or "(slang) An outsider." I don't have access to the OED, unfortunately. What hallowed tome are you using to make such a declaration in prescriptive linguistics?

 

[Dandu]

It's from 1E, iirc.

 

[Jacob Marley]

What hallowed tome are you using to make such a declaration in prescriptive linguistics?

White Dwarf #12 (1979) on Githyanki.

 

[Jeffrie]

I also want a low magic game, but understand the dnd world is full of magic.

The easiest fix i've used, though i'm not much of a pro or anything, is to just use two simple rules.


Cut the cap on the max number of spells a day/level by two for every caster class.

Do the same thing with monsters.


Like your system, makes more multiclassers. I also like your idea of raising the level on item creation feats (was that you?).

Really, you almost need a plot device like yours to do it.

 

[shadyizok]

Personaly I don't have that much trouble with casters being 'more powerfull' but maybe that's because I play with a bunch of grown-up duded who try not to outshine each other in a way that is detrimental to each others fun.

But more on topic:
I don't understand the drive for so many people to try and 'fix' D&D. You wan't a low magic campaign? Play the conan system or one of the other really good roleplaying systems out there. There is more then just D&D. I prefer playing D&D but with it's entire system intact (well and maybe a houserule/ban here and there). To me it seems like you're trying really hard to turn an ironingboard in a barstool. You can end up with a product that is somewhat passible as a barstool, but you would have been better of just getting a barstool in the first place.

 

[Dandu]

Personaly I don't have that much trouble with casters being 'more powerfull' but maybe that's because I play with a bunch of grown-up duded who try not to outshine each other in a way that is detrimental to each others fun.

If you bought a compute game, let's say Command & Conquer: Red Alert, you would expect the Allies and Soviet Unition militaries to be balanced, right? No obvious power disparity between them despite the fact that both sides have different approaches to warfare, so if you're playing a 4v4 multiplayer, and choose Great Britain while your allies choose Mother Russia, you won't be dragging the team down by playing an underpowered faction.

Even if the other players compensate for the Great Britain's weakness by agreeing out of game to not make you feel useless or overshadowed, you have to admit it would be, at the very least, a bad decision on the part of the publisher to release a game with serious flaws that should have been picked up in playtesting. Which is something that I'm glad Westwood Studios didn't do, because that would have be horrible.

Also, being the one the rest of the team has to play down for cannot be a good feeling, from what I can tell.

 

[shadyizok]

Hmm, I get your point Dandu. I do feel like a complicated game such as D&D where the owner has more input in terms of balance and play is not completely comparable to a computer game with far more outlined frames in which choices can be made. However, you are right, it is quite annoying that WotC have not been able to rectify that problem in 4 editions.
Having said that, 3.5 or 4th is the product that is available, with it's flaws, but right next on the shelf to other great roleplaying games. What I was trying to say is that if the inherent inbalance in D&D as it sold is such a downer for your style of play that you have to rewrite half the system, I would suggest looking at a different system.

And what I meant with 'not outshine' I should have probably wrote down as: try to work together. The allmighty haste is both better and more fun in my opinion than a fireball. Fireball gets you the kill, haste gets your partymembers the kill. (allthough probably largly thanks to you).