Charge question

[Mengu]

Forgot to mention this, but because he's a bugbear, I believe he is using a large execution axe. So its 2 d6's. which makes the brutal 2 and vorpal effect much more effective, IMHO.

Oh, strike that, you have to fix it then. My previously proposed fix should work fine. It would amount to 4.5 extra damage per encounter. A modest boost, that is more than the bugbear with the oversize weapon needs.

And for the record, I don't believe oversize weapons were ever meant to be in the hands of PC's.

 

[SSquirrel]

Forgot to mention this, but because he's a bugbear, I believe he is using a large execution axe. So its 2 d6's. which makes the brutal 2 and vorpal effect much more effective, IMHO.

Average damage for 1d12 brutal 2 is 7.5. Average damage for 2d6 brutal 2 is 9. Extra 1.5 average damage for a size increase is pretty nice. High crit will add up nicely, especially when you get to Paragon tier. Add in the exploding die factor and the daily bonus damage, which I would assume is down to 2d6 instead of the original item's +3d12, you really can pile on damage.

 

[DracoSuave]

DM needs to grow a spine.

Vorpal wepaon on a level 6 bugbear who charges through enemies and ignores OAs?

If there were any more cheese here you could open a shoppe.

 

[SSquirrel]

DM needs to grow a spine.

Vorpal wepaon on a level 6 bugbear who charges through enemies and ignores OAs?

If there were any more cheese here you could open a shoppe.

Badge of the Berserker will let you ignore OAs, but I'm curious what there is that lets a bugbear charge thru enemy squares. Plus that whole charging thru to the other side of a target and the one you ran thru is the one who is your charge target. That is just plain incorrect.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Okay, just to reiterate, I wasn't DM during the first module, so there were some things allowed that I'm fairly certain I wouldn't have allowed.

With that in mind, I'm doing damage-control *now*, so I just have to suck it up and deal withi it. As I've stated, I really hate to just point-blank take something away from a player. However, I feel that class/race/items combo in this case is breaking the game a bit, so I'm going to explain it to this player and give him options, including changing the mod or adjusting the weapon as I posted earlier.

I've asked the player in question to e-mail a PDF or dnd4e file to me so I can look it over thoroughly.

I'll post what items he's using to answer the questions that have been raised here.

Thanks for all the advice and help gang.

 

[SSquirrel]

Okay, just to reiterate, I wasn't DM during the first module, so there were some things allowed that I'm fairly certain I wouldn't have allowed.

With that in mind, I'm doing damage-control *now*, so I just have to suck it up and deal withi it. As I've stated, I really hate to just point-blank take something away from a player. However, I feel that class/race/items combo in this case is breaking the game a bit, so I'm going to explain it to this player and give him options, including changing the mod or adjusting the weapon as I posted earlier.

I've asked the player in question to e-mail a PDF or dnd4e file to me so I can look it over thoroughly.

I'll post what items he's using to answer the questions that have been raised here.

Thanks for all the advice and help gang.

No problem. Switching the enchantment from Vorpal to Vanguard would still serve to make his charges better and is possible at current level, altho if the players are level 6, it would only be +1. The +2 version is a L8 item. Keep him from getting any other treasure for a bit and the +2 Vanguard now is fine

If he doesn't have a Horned Helm yet and you want him to still do big charges, but not be as potentially explosive as Vorpal allowed him to be, you could toss one of those his way soon. It's a L6 item. Horned Helm+Vanguard weapon means a bonus 1d6+1d8 on a charge attack, which is pretty darn nice. Toss the low level boots that allow a shift after a charge and Badge of the Berserker and he's all over the place, the difference is it's intended at that level.

 

[mneme]

I wouldn't be giving level 6 characters the ability to charge through enemies and ignore attacks of opportunity either.

'Even if they WERE a charging build.

Um, no. I could see a campaign where I let someone get away with a vorpal sworld at 6th level (sure, it's nuts, but it's not like someone getting permaflight or perma-invis at low levels). But what we've got here is what?

A MM minotaur (a disallowed and broken PC race) with a 26th level enchant on a 6th level item, using a borderline broken item (badge of the berserker), plus a custom item that grants phasing on a charge (ok, there's an alternative reward that grants this for a 23rd level item equivalent...), using an invalid interpretation of the charge rules that involves charging through a creature and attaking it on the other side.

NO.

But actually, the thing I referenced you with was simply charging around a corner or diagonal wall.

Tho do note: I don't run games strictly RAW, I just argue strict RAW in RAW debates.

Fair enough -- that's what RAW is for; you gotta know what the rules are before knowing how and why to break them.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Okay, I went back and checked to make sure I didn't post incorrectly on the first message, but our group is at level 8, not 6. Thanks.

Also, its not an item that gives the Bugbear the ability to go through enemies, its some Barbarian Daily power. Thunderhooves Falling or something like that. Its like 1-2 enemies he can go through.

Thanks again for all the advice/help gang.

 

[mneme]

Also, its not an item that gives the Bugbear the ability to go through enemies, its some Barbarian Daily power. Thunderhooves Falling or something like that. Its like 1-2 enemies he can go through.

Thanks again for all the advice/help gang.

Oh, good. It's a level 1 power. Thunder Hooves Rage.

Oh, bad. It grants +1W when attacking the creature you went through. And so is bulit around the idea that you -won't- be charging the creature you went through. You keep leaving off these important details. (also: Cheese shop).

This is not entirely true. It may be your understanding for the intention of the feat, but the wording of the feat supports other interpretations:

It doesn't matter; the orignal Roundabout Charge doesn't exist any more. Does anyone look at the rules compendium any more (including me)?

Roundabout Charge: When you charge, each square of your movement need not bring you closer to the target of your charge, but you must start the charge at least 3 squares away from the target.

So no, it doesn't let you start adjacent to the target and charge through it to attack on the other side. It -does- let you abuse Thunder Hooves Rage by starting 3 squares away from the target and charge through it to attack on the other side.

If RC still had all the noise about "closest square", then no, it wouldn't work, but it's not worth arguing since that version of Roundabout Charge isn't even a valid feat any more.

 

[Dan'L]

the orignal Roundabout Charge doesn't exist any more. Does anyone look at the rules compendium any more (including me)?

Roundabout Charge: When you charge, each square of your movement need not bring you closer to the target of your charge, but you must start the charge at least 3 squares away from the target.

Thanks for this; I missed this rules change somehow -- mainly because I don't have access to the rules compendium, and this update to the rules came in unheralded to the errata/updates*. The PDFs for the errata have been increasingly less useful. :/

(*This is based on my having a PC with the feat for a good amount of time after the charge rules were changed; since the "new" charge rules made interpreting the old RC feat difficult, I was checking every update for clarification. When none came even after several updates, I suppose I fell to the assumption that this feat was one that they just never felt needed addressing; I'm glad to see that they did.)

-Dan'L