Charging, Cleave, Spring attack and AoO...

[Scion]

a little off topic:

ever thought about (great) cleave and "true strike"?

true strike only works on your next attack, so the bonus attack roll wouldnt get it

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

What if I give them the evil eye before I move

Then they probably look at you funny.

 

[Thanee]

What if I give them the evil eye before I move

Doesn't that hurt!?

Bye
Thanee

 

[ARandomGod]

Now, to take this to an even more ridiculous extreme, let's say it was a pack of invisible, silenced dire lemmings, and the guy with Combat Reflexes and Great Cleave has see invisible active. His opponent sees and hears nothing out of the ordinary, except that the guy he's fighting whacks something behind him, and attacks him, whacks something else behind him, and attacks him, and so on until he runs out of AOOs.

All I have to say is that invisible dire lemmings is a much cooler scenario than the simple box of puppies. If perhaps harder to accomplish.

Now, what if it were an illusion of invisible dire lemmings? One's that, for some reason, the attacker can see?

If that happens, you have more serious issues than worrying about Cleave. You should be worrying about finding a sane DM. So, why does someone always bring up the bag o' rats nonsense when this issue is discussed?

Allow me to answer that
1) Because it works under one of the rules interpretation being debated, and not the other.
2) Because it illustrates the percieved* silllyness of the rules interpretation under which it works.

And don't think that such a situation can't occur. If it can be thought of, the players can make arrangements for it to happen.


*Note: I'm making no actual comment on either rules interpretation. I even added the word percieved, as the person bringing it up generally thinks it's silly, and so uses this silly situation to illustrate his point. If you also think it's silly, you must be agreeing with him. Obviously! O_O

 

[Darth Malakh]

true strike only works on your next attack, so the bonus attack roll wouldnt get it

then you should read the wording of the feat's description

"If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop..., you get
an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within
reach. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack.
The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as
the attack that dropped the previous creature. ..."

Malakh

 

[Scion]

then you should read the wording of the feat's description

No worries, I know what it says

But there are times when it is 'litterally impossible' to have the exact same bonus (higher ground vs lower ground, bane working vs not working, true strike vs no true strike, etc) that the 'same bonus' they are talking about must be the same 'bab' bonus of the strike you are making. Likely they are trying to make people understand that it doesnt use your next attack up or something like that.

There have been a few threads on this in the fairly recent past actually.

 

[Inigo Carmine]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scion
true strike only works on your next attack, so the bonus attack roll wouldnt get it

then you should read the wording of the feat's description

It is clarified in the FAQ with an example of either a charge's +2 or truestrike not getting added to a cleave attack. What "at the same bonus" is supposed to mean is the same BAB +other modifiers that apply; modifers that apply only to a single attack are not carried over.

Other examples that could aply to the first attack, but not to the added cleave attack are:

flanking bonus
attack bonus from a bane weapon
attack bonus from being on higher ground
racial attack bonuses (like dwarves bonus against orcs)

Keep in mind this works both ways. If you kill someone you're not flanking and cleave into someone you are flanking, you will get the +2 flanking bonus to the person you're flanking.