Charging

[moritheil]

Tonight, my DM made a statement about a charge not provoking an AOO from its target. I have never heard of this. Is there textual support for this in the rules? And if it's true, doesn't that make the sections about setting spears against a charge rather pointless except in large group combat?

 

[darthkilmor]

Tonight, my DM made a statement about a charge not provoking an AOO from its target. I have never heard of this. Is there textual support for this in the rules? And if it's true, doesn't that make the sections about setting spears against a charge rather pointless except in large group combat?

Is there texual support FOR a charge provoking an AoO from its target that you're thinking of ?
(Charge)
When you set a spear against a charge, that would be 'readying an action' I believe.

 

[moritheil]

Is there texual support FOR a charge provoking an AoO from its target that you're thinking of ?

Sure, under the general rules for AOOs.

Moving

Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes an attack of opportunity from the threatening opponent. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action.

When you set a spear against a charge, that would be 'readying an action' I believe.

So you assert that setting a spear is readying an attack?

 

[jaelis]

Charging does provoke. Nothing says it doesn't, the general rule for movement says it does, and if you need direct confirmation, see the Hold the Line feat.

He's getting the wrong idea from the table of actions on PHB page 141, where is says a charge does not provoke. But tell him to read the associated footnote 1.

 

[Animal]

no. charging doesn't provoke AoOs by itself. movement out of the threatened square does, though.

if you need a textual support, open your PHB at page 141 and look at the table.

 

[moritheil]

Charging does provoke. Nothing says it doesn't, the general rule for movement says it does, and if you need direct confirmation, see the Hold the Line feat.

He's getting the wrong idea from the table of actions on PHB page 141, where is says a charge does not provoke. But tell him to read the associated footnote 1.

Thank you, I was wondering where it came from.

Animal, the charge target in question is a monster with 20' reach.

 

[Stormrunner]

Charging, per se, does not provoke an AoO.
Moving within the target's threat area does.
So, if you charge, and the target has a longer reach than you (whether from having a reach weapon, or from natural size/long arms), they will get an AoO against you. But they would get that exact same AoO if you just strolled up to them in a non-charging way.

If you're trying to melee with a critter that has 20' reach, then unless you can somehow give yourself 20' reach or greater, you will take an AoO as you close with them, charging or not. However, unless it has Combat Reflexes, it probably only gets one AoO a round. So have the PC with the best armor class move in and attack (preferably non-charging, to avoid the AC penalty), since he has the best chance of being missed by the AoO. Then the rest of the party can charge in and clobber the beast now that its AoO for the round has been used up. If you surround it, then in order to flee it will probably have to pass through the threat areas of one or more PCs, giving you the opportunity to AoO it right back.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So you assert that setting a spear is readying an attack?

Bearing in mind that several weapons that can be set to receive a charge are not reach weapons (halberd, spear, urgrosh), it seems that setting a weapon to receive a charge requires a readied action of the form "If he charges me, I hit him".

1a. Attacker has a longsword, Defender has a spear. Defender readies an action - setting the spear against a charge. Attacker charges; when he moves into the adjacent square, the Defender's readied action triggers, and he strikes with the set spear for double damage.

1b. Attacker has a longsword, Defender has a spear. Defender readies an action - setting the spear against a charge. Attacker takes a move action to approach, and attacks; when he moves into the adjacent square, the Defender's readied action does not trigger, since he did not charge.

2a. Attacker has a longsword, Defender has a spear. Defender readies an action - attack when the Attacker approaches. Attacker charges; when he moves into the adjacent square, the Defender's readied action triggers, and he strikes with the spear, but since it was not specifically set against a charge, there is no double damage.

2b. Attacker has a longsword, Defender has a spear. Defender readies an action - attack when the Attacker approaches. Attacker takes a move action to approach, and attacks; when he moves into the adjacent square, the Defender's readied action triggers, and he strikes with the spear.

So setting the spear has the advantage of doubled damage, but the disadvantage that it can result in a wasted action if the attacker does not charge. Readied a generic attack-vs-approach has less possibility of wasted action, but will not result in doubled damage.

-Hyp.

 

[darthkilmor]

Charging does provoke. Nothing says it doesn't, the general rule for movement says it does, and if you need direct confirmation, see the Hold the Line feat.

He's getting the wrong idea from the table of actions on PHB page 141, where is says a charge does not provoke. But tell him to read the associated footnote 1.

Charging only provokes an AoO from the target if the target has greater than 5' of reach. There's nothing special about a charge that says it DOES provoke an AoO any differently than any other form of movement, was the point I was trying to make, but without being overly verbose so of course everyone nitpicked it.

 

[irdeggman]

From the Rules Compendium (pg 27 under initiating a charge):

"You provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for your movement."


On having to use the ready action to do double damage with a spear against a charging foe.

from the SRD:

Spear: A spear can be thrown. If you use a ready action to set a spear against a charge, you deal double damage on a successful hit against a charging character