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Cheating, Action Points, and Second Wind

Kwalish Kid

Explorer
Hi everyone, I was just thinking about some RPG issues. Your feedback would be appreciated.

In his 1984 ethnographic study of role-playing games, Gary Alan Fine speaks briefly on cheating. He notes that every player, including himself, cheats from time to time but that, generally, this cheating is overlooked because the cheating assists the players and the overall narrative of the game. He distinguishes player cheating with the ability of the DM to change rules openly or secretly, something that is an acknowledged part of the game. Additionally, he notes that in both of these activities, there is the possibility for gamers to socially punish either cheating players or DMs who make arbitrary rulings (even when supported in doing so by the rulebooks).

I bring this up here because one of the explicit design goals of the recent D&D editions has been to give players more control over their actions. Cheating is one way that, it seems, many player exercise in order to avoid poor rolls or other gaming outcomes that would adversely change the fate of the player's character, the party, or the overall story without appealing to the power of the DM to make arbitrary rulings. Some of the mechanics of 4E seem to me to address the underlying desires that lead to player cheating.

Action points (and the roll a replacement die feats from SAGA edition and 4E previews) seem to be a way to address the real desire of players to have to occasional ability to alter the outcome of die rolls. Depending on the mechanism of the points, players can chose to boost rolls, perhaps after the die is rolled, and have some control over the otherwise completely random roll that they are using to decide that small course of the game. As action points are usually limited, this control is similarly limited, allowing for most of the game to follow the somewhat random course that most gamers find appealing. The use of action points will not replace all kinds of cheating, but will channel some of the desire to cheat elsewhere.

The Second Wind mechanic, which provides every player at least one opportunity to apply some healing to his or her character, is another example of a rule mechanic that may channel the desire of a player to cheat. In most RPGs, most players must rely on a source outside of their control in order to replenish the resource that keeps their character active in the game. The importance of this resource (hit points in D&D) is such that there is a great incentive to cheat on the amount of this resource available to a character, especially if that character is at risk. By giving the player the chance to have some control over this resource, even if only small control, the desire to cheat can be channeled into a use of the Second Wind mechanic.

Finally, I wish to note that while these might be small changes to roll results and hit point totals, the opportunities for cheating do not often allow for great changes, at least not very often. In the end, faced with the socially risky act of cheating or the socially acceptable act of a cheating alternative like these mechanics, most players will opt to stick to the latter.

I doubt that the desire to avoid cheating is entirely behind this rule mechanic. Still, I do think that it is plausible that these mechanics will reduce cheating from the game, thus bringing the game rules closer to the desires of players.
 

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Asmor

First Post
I'm really hoping not to come off as preachy here, and if I do I apologize, but I don't cheat. Further, the idea of cheating is so anathema to me that if I was ever presented with proof that one of my friends did cheat in a game with me, that would be grounds for me to no longer be friends with them. I can't be friends with someone I can't trust, and I can't trust a cheater.

I don't think cheating is so wide spread as you or Mr. Fine believe. Like anything else, I imagine it depends a lot on your group.

All that said, you do make an interesting point. I think that these new mechanics are more of an example of the "new school" thought (I'm sure someone will call me out on that) that what's most important is fun and doing cool stuff. It's been stated before that action points were introduced specifically to get characters to try crazy stunts, safe in the knowledge that they'd have a bit of a buffer if one was required. Of course, in practice, action points are rarely used that way, but that's a problem with the design of the mechanic.

As for the second wind, that's just meant to reduce downtime and increase the amount of action PCs can pack into a day, as well as make a party which doesn't have a cleric totally crippled.

I think a better example of a mechanic where cheating may have been a motivational factor (though certainly not the only one) is point buy. Not only does it help maintain balance and give players greater control over their characters, but it also makes cheating much more difficult, risky and easier to detect.
 

Ahrimon

Bourbon and Dice
Asmor said:
I'm really hoping not to come off as preachy here, and if I do I apologize, but I don't cheat. Further, the idea of cheating is so anathema to me that if I was ever presented with proof that one of my friends did cheat in a game with me, that would be grounds for me to no longer be friends with them. I can't be friends with someone I can't trust, and I can't trust a cheater.

I don't think cheating is so wide spread as you or Mr. Fine believe. Like anything else, I imagine it depends a lot on your group.

You don't come off as preachy, but you'll forgive me if I can't beleive a word of it. You've never corrected a challenge mistake by adjusting a few choice rolls to give the players a shot? Or, would you just let the last four months of the campaigne grind to a screeching halt because of a mistake? And don't say that you don't make mistakes. We're all human, except for maybe a few oddballs around here. :p

If as a player you've managed to resist that temptation to "miracuosly" stabilize at the last possible second before the character you've been nurturing for the last year bites the dust. Then I applaud your willpower. Or it might be that your characters are nothing more than numbers on paper to be used and discarded as needed so there is never a temptation to "adjust" something. (not attacking you, just a viable game style)

And to your statement that you would not want to be friends with someone that had done even a tiny amount of fudging, then you're not exactly what I would call friend material. To seriously throw away a friend because they only did 18 points of damage leaving the BBEG on the brink of death or 20 pts of damage and saving the day for all, is extremely shallow in my oppinion. (This last bit sounds preachy and/or attacking. I don't mean to insult you at all. It's just that what you would do over such a minor thing is an anathema to what I would call a friend.)


I honestly think we've all done it at one time or another over the last 30 or so years. It's not something that's here for the new generation. It's just something we've done to keep the fun rolling along.
 

Zaruthustran

The tingling means it’s working!
It seems to me that Action Points are in the game specifically to allow the players to cheat.

By that, I mean that when the game says "according to my rules, your character fails at that roll" action points allow the player to say "that's too bad, because I'm spending this action point to succeed at that roll."
 

Hella_Tellah

Explorer
I've introduced a Fate Point mechanic in my game modeled on the experience awards criteria in WoD. Players get one Fate Point for showing up, and each session they can get one for good roleplay and one for doing something out-of-game that makes the game better--bringing pizza, drawing a comic of the previous battle, giving a ride to people who otherwise couldn't be there, etc. There are three behaviors I want to encourage above all others at my table: attendance, roleplaying, and a friendly atmosphere.

Fate Points are used to get a re-roll on a d20 roll or a percent roll to stabilize the character, and for no other purpose. Unlike the Eberron or UA systems, it doesn't allow the characters to exceed their normal bounds, so I can make sure there are still challenges that are firmly and completely beyond the party. And I think of it in much the same terms Kwalish Kid suggests: it's officially sanctioned cheating. The game hasn't started yet, so we'll see how the players like it, but I think it will provide a nice release valve for any latent desire to cheat. Players who roleplay well and support the group get to cheat more often, and that nicely coincides with the way we'd play the game anyway, allowing a "gimme" for the players who play well.

I also make sure my players know that the DM is simultaneously rooting for them and running the rules fairly. They know I don't fudge rolls, and I like to think that style of play encourages players to be literate in the rules and to follow them.
 

Cadfan

First Post
I don't think cheating is so wide spread as you or Mr. Fine believe. Like anything else, I imagine it depends a lot on your group.
I doubt outright cheating is all that common.

But... lets say that I'm the DM, and I have an orc attack a character. That character has been taking a beating. He's down to his last few hit points, and he's got like five negative conditions stacked on him at this point- he's nauseated, frightened, dazzled, cursed, and prone. A lot's been going wrong for this guy.

I roll the attack roll, and get a 24. I look at my notes, and declare a miss.

The player knows that his character's AC is actually 23 at this point. I forgot one of the modifiers from one of the conditions. I knew the condition was there, but I just forgot it when I calculated the hit.

He knows that if he speaks up, his character will probably die.

He keeps quiet.

Is this player cheating?
 

buzz

Adventurer
Fine's book is really interesting, but is very out of date.

Action Points and similar mechanics don't have anything to do with cheating. They are a basic way to give players a bit of authorial power via a resource they can draw upon to say "The outcome of this die roll is important to me." They exist to mitigate the effects the rules have as-written, i.e., that sometimes they don't always produce the results you want.

IOW, the d20 you're rolling doesn't care if it's resolving some critical moment that the campaign has been building towards for months. It's gonna roll what it's gonna roll. "Dramatic editing" mechanics allow the player to influence the outcome to get a result they want, one that may possibly make for "better story," as it were.
 


marune

First Post
IMHO, cheats are mainly due to players playing the wrong game.

If you are often cheating (DM or player) to make a little more / less damage to end the fight (or any other rolls) in a way to make a better story, the problem may be that D&D is not the best game for your playstyle.

For example, in some RPG, both success and failures must move the story forward.
 


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